# Thoughts on Carol Moseley Braun
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 1, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046 "2011-01-01T14:17:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/21 "2011-01-06T15:39:49Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#):
>
> …but I suspect this is a case in which the leopard hasn’t changed her shorts.
Having a mental picture of CMB in leopard-print shorts now. Eeew. 😃
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### Author:  [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/22 "2011-01-06T19:24:03Z")
Rahm will chew her up and spit her out, much like he will with Chico and DelValle. Actually, DelValle has a better chance than Carol. She’s the male Roland Burris.
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### Author:  [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)
#### Post date: [January 6, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/23 "2011-01-06T20:31:43Z")
I think it is hilarious that Bill Daley is taking the post Rahm abandoned, even as Rahm is seeking the post that Richie Daley is leaving! Talk about symmetry.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2011, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/24 "2011-01-08T08:35:06Z")
> [@Cheryl44](#):
>
> Mosley-Braun was the person who made me realize I shouldn’t vote for a woman just because she’s a woman.
Her and not Jane Byrne?
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/25 "2011-01-08T16:09:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Yes, well, keep in mind she was running a _small business_, and a LOT of those have lost money over the past few years. Said business being a company that sold what are essentially a luxury items: tea, coffee, and spices. What’s the first thing people in a bad economy cut back on? Luxuries. I’d say it would be better to judge how she was doing business-wise _before_ the recession.
>
> I think she didn’t want to show her tax information because she was _embarrassed_ at losing money/low net income. If she’d been smarter she would have said “sure, I’ll release it - and you’ll see that like many small businesses these past few years I have truly struggled. I can understand how so many Chicagoans feel who have been laid off or lost their jobs or suffered financial hardships because I’m there myself” but nooooooo… now her rivals can use her hesitancy to disclose against her, and slam her as a failed businessperson person on top of it.
>
> Not that I’m a CMB fan, but really, given the circumstances, I don’t think you can slam her on low business income _alone_ here, as the economy really has taken down a lot of companies simply because people stopped buying stuff. I’d have to know more about how she ran her business before I could make that call.
What it shows is that her first impulse was to try to hide information that might be embarrassing. Not a good first impression to get out for someone with quite a history of [questionable ethical decisions](http://www.slate.com/id/2078924/). It will make that history front and center.
And I don’t think spinning it as “See, I understand how bad this economy is, my business failed because of the economy too.” will play well either. It may come off less as being one of the people, than it comes off as making excuses. [Ambassador Organics](http://www.ambassadororganics.com/index.php) was trying to trade on her diplomatic career and it failed, while many other niche local organic food companies have thrived. Chicago is in for tough economic times coming up; I don’t think Chicagoans want someone who makes excuses for failure.
She’s got some name recognition, and much of it is not too negative, and she is Black, and a woman, and she espouses some of the beliefs that progressives like to hear. Those things were enough for her to be considered a viable candidate. Winning though requires being able to sell your ability to be tough and knowledgeable enough to tackle the city’s upcoming problems, or at least sell your backstory and your vision for the future. This is a very bad start in that effort. Maybe she’ll pull enough of a share that there will be a run-off but I doubt she will be in that run-off.
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### Author:  [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/26 "2011-01-08T16:20:51Z")
She just might live up to the standards of Harold Washington, remembered primarily for an being depicted in woman’s underwear and the ensuing kerfuffle.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/27 "2011-01-08T16:39:46Z")
Funny. I remember Washington as a smart politician who managed to actually beat out Fast Eddie and the racism of the White ethnics and rise the victor from the Council Wars with the support of not only Blacks, but also Latinos and liberal Whites, and who died soon after he handily won a second term.
No, the stupid painting of him is not part of how _I_ remember him at least.
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### Author:  [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/28 "2011-01-08T16:53:11Z")
Well there’s the library - I’ll give you that.
Would you care to list other accomplishments outside of political victories?
Got elected and then…
Did what?
An empty suit, like Janym Byrne and CMB.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/29 "2011-01-08T17:32:48Z")
Actually I place him with JFK. Died before he could actually do much. His accomplishment was restricted to the political realm: as much as Braun is a play to identity politics, Washington won the battle by transcending the racial barriers and moved the White ethnic racists to the sidelines by the time he was re-elected. Daly learned that lesson and earned his long tenure by knowing that power had to be shared across the identity spectrum. Braun’s being put up as a candidate whose prime qualification is her appeal to identity elements will fail because those elements are no longer as disenfranchised and have learned that they can have power in administrations headed by a White male and be poorly represented by someone of their identity, and vis a versa. Which happened when Whites learned that a Black person in charge could be a mayor for them too, and when Daly ruled in that same spirit as a result. Chicago is still often about identity politics, but it now usually means having fair representation in the winning team, not just voting for the person who you superficially appear similar to.
Not a bad accomplishment after one term with Council Wars. IMHO.
Shame he died before he had a chance to really do the job.
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### Author:  [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/30 "2011-01-08T19:46:03Z")
So;
Harold Washington = JFK
By the mere act of winning an election though accomplishing nothing at all while in office. You’re comparing Harold Washington to JFK?! I am stumped for an appropriate response.
OK - got it. Your position is quite clear now. Thank you for the clarification.
None of what you attribute to him can factually be attributed. It’s in your head.
But what the hell - I’ll play along.
Jerry Springer is George Washington!
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/31 "2011-01-08T21:15:01Z")
In so far as neither actually had a chance to accomplish much as President or Mayor yet are remembered for the potential they both had promised … yes. Not equal but there is a parallel. And your being stumped by that parallel is unsurprising.
In any case, your conflating Washington (Harold, not George) with Braun in this thread is an odd thing to do, and the only non-Pit response is to respond along the lines of how identity politics has changed in Chicago since then and how, I believe, Washington’s term and resounding re-election played a key role in achieving that. Some elements of current “Black leadership” still feel that they need a Black candidate or else the will be dealt out. And some respond to one Black candidate by conflating her with a Black mayor of the past. But MHO is that both of those sides are actual fairly inconsequential when it comes to how people vote.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/32 "2011-01-08T21:43:15Z")
Well, Harold Washington also never had sex with Uncle Chester’s sister. I don’t think Washington was a remarkably effective mayor, but he wasn’t an aggressively bad one, and he did do a lot to fight the machine.
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### Author:  [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/33 "2011-01-08T23:09:16Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> And some respond to one Black candidate by conflating her with a Black mayor of the past.
If you honestly thought that was was the intention, it makes the rest of you posts much clearer.
The nonsense you continue to drivel on about “identity politics” and how HW put an end to it is still all in your head. HW did nothing more than win an election. He did not do any of the things you claim - if I’m wrong please show me otherwise, I’m sure you can provide cites for your ascertains, correct?
My comparing CMB and HW is not odd at all. They are both figureheads, politicians, office holders. Nothing more. Neither ever did anything of substance for the people they represented. But somehow you don’t mention that I compared both of them to Jane Byrne. That doesn’t fit into your implied accusations of racism so it gets left out; convieneint that.
To use your phrasing - that you don’t understand this is unsuprising.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [January 10, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/34 "2011-01-10T21:21:35Z")
Off-topic a bit, but I’ll put in a plug for JFK.
For all his personal faults, he got a lot done in three years in office. He firmly committed the nation to desegregation and civil rights for all, set an ambitious and stirring national goal of a Moon landing by the end of the decade, established the Peace Corps, masterfully handled the Cuban Missile Crisis, laid the groundwork for detente with the Soviet Union, brought Big Steel to heel, cut taxes, helped trigger the economic boom of the early-to-mid-Sixties, saw to the passage of the Limited Nuclear Test Ban Treaty and the Alliance for Progress, restored style and grace to the White House, inspired a generation to public service, and gave one of the most stirring inaugural addresses of U.S. history.
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### Author:  [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)
#### Post date: [January 10, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/35 "2011-01-10T22:31:48Z")
> [@zoid](#):
>
> Well there’s the library - I’ll give you that.
> Would you care to list other accomplishments outside of political victories?
> Got elected and then…
> Did what?
> An empty suit, like Janym Byrne and CMB.
No offense, **zoid** , but the fact that you lump these three quite different personalities under the heading “empty suit” suggests you’re a lot like John Kass in terms of your ability to draw distinctions.
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### Author:  [@threeorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threeorange)
#### Post date: [January 13, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/37 "2011-01-13T00:33:19Z")
> [@zoid](#):
>
> My comparing CMB and HW is not odd at all. They are both figureheads, politicians, office holders. Nothing more. Neither ever did anything of substance for the people they represented.
The first three years of Washington’s only full term in office were spent fighting a [deliberately obstructionist block of aldermen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_Wars). It would have been difficult for anyone to accomplish much in such a situation. Neither Braun nor Byrne ever faced the level of vitriolic opposition that Washington did, so your comparison is nonsensical.
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### Author:  [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/38 "2011-01-19T23:31:57Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#):
>
> No offense, **zoid** , but the fact that you lump these three quite different personalities under the heading “empty suit” suggests you’re a lot like John Kass in terms of your ability to draw distinctions.
HA! That’s funny because it’s true.
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### Author:  [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)
#### Post date: [January 20, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/39 "2011-01-20T04:53:26Z")
I try very hard to never think about Carol Moseley Braun at all. I wouldn’t vote for her (IMS, I was too young to vote for her in the Senate race).
I don’t see her as a leader for Chicago: IMO she has no vision.
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### Author:  [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)
#### Post date: [January 20, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/40 "2011-01-20T13:29:33Z")
I helped vote her into the Senate, then I helped vote her out. Memory is a funny thing, but she _must_ have come across as more competent in that first campaign. These days every time she opens her mouth she sounds like a clown.
Last week she claimed to have earned an [advanced degree from Harvard](http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/1/19/braun-harvard-chicago-degree/). Turns out she didn’t. This week she [blasted Bill Clinton](http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/19/carol-moseley-braun-says-bill-clinton-is-betraying-minorities/) for supporting Emanuel:
> [@](#):
>
> “For him to come on the day following Dr. Martin Luther King’s birthday to insert himself in the middle of a mayoral race,” Braun said in a statement, “is a betrayal of the people who were most loyal to him. It’s a mistake.”
>
> (and)
>
> “The African-American community if you remember when he was having Monica Lewinsky problems stuck by him,” she said.
Last night I saw her on the news trying to explain how these remarks had nothing to do with race. Really???
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### Author:  [@threeorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threeorange)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-carol-moseley-braun/566046/41 "2011-01-21T22:58:29Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> As DSeid noted, she’ll likely get the vast majority of the black vote, which frequently seems to go for black candidates regardless of other qualifications (see: Todd Stroger).
In 2003, Richard Daley (who, as you may know, is not black) ran against three black candidates (Paul Jakes, Pat McAllister and Joseph McAfee) and won majorities in every ward in the city, including all of the predominantly black ones. In 2007, Daley ran against two black candidates (William Walls and Dorothy Brown) and won majorities in all but one predominantly black ward (the 6th), where he won a 48.6% plurality.
The idea that black Chicago voters are a monolithic bloc that will blindly support any black candidate is not supported by evidence.
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