# Thoughts on Patrick O'Brian's Novels? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [November 15, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078 "2016-11-15T17:58:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/202 "2023-06-09T14:27:18Z")
I have to admit, I’m not fond of the Patrick O’Brian novels. They just never “worked” for me. But I love naval stories from that era – C.S. Forester, Alexander Kent, C. Northcote Parkinson etc. I read these novels with a copy of **The Oxford Dictionary of Ships and the Sea** nearby, because, although you can guess some things from context and similarity to othe uses, some cases will really throw you. When I first read about a seaman cast the lead “from the anchor chains”, I imaging some guy standing awkwardly in the actual chain attached to the anchor. But the term really means a sort of platform protruding from the side of the ship. No anchor or chain actually involved. Here’s an image – the thing the guy is standing on is the “anchor chain” (read the text on this page, too) > **[Casting the Lead](https://ageofsail.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/casting-the-lead/)** > > “Mr. Bush, do you see the battery?” “Yes, sir.” “You will the longboat. Mr. Rayner will take the launch, and you will land and storm the battery.” “Aye, ay… ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/203 "2023-06-09T15:21:53Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > I also seem to recall getting bogged down in the second book of the series as it bait-and-switched me from a swashbuckler to a Jane Austen novel–I might be remembering another book or author, but for an age-of-sail-fiction novel it seemed to spend way too much time on land discussing social drama. No, you’ve got it exactly right. The first half of _Post Captain_ does appear to be an _homage_ to Jane Austen, who O’Brian was a huge fan of - witness Jack Aubrey’s initials. All I can suggest is you keep through it - the second half does revert to a swashbuckler. And the relationships & characters introduced in the first half of the book drive much of Jack & Stephen’s home adventures for the rest of the series. > [@Cardigan](#): > > Okay, serious question for other serious O’Brian readers. I’m curious how others approach the whole naval jargon thing. I mean is there anyone who busts out a glossary and says to themselves … I simply must understand this arcane term before I go any further with this tale… There was someone else on this board who said when they got into a jargon heavy paragraph including double coaked sister blocks and starboard gumbrils they would just say to themselves “and something impressively nautical happened” and move on. I do my best to try to figure out what a word or phrase means, but I did eventually pick up a copy of “A Sea of Words”, which defines most of the nautical and period vocabulary used in the books. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/204 "2023-06-09T17:21:57Z")
As I posted awhile back, a high school friend of mine is a huge O’Brian fan but doesn’t enjoy the long descriptions of sails, ropes, masts, yardarms, etc. Whenever he gets to such a passage he just thinks to himself, “They are handling the ship very skillfully,” and skips ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/205 "2023-06-09T21:52:14Z")
Across the series so much of significance is set on the different ships, and the action is controlled by the physical constraints of there never being enough space, as well as it being very three-dimensional from the masts to the various decks. Especially during action sequences, it helped me to picture events if I knew which mast had been blown away and what getting from A to B involved. I think it does enrich the experience, but you should savour it for your second start-to-finish read-through of the series. As well as _Sea of Words_ there is [_Patrick O’Brian’s Navy_](https://www.amazon.com/Patrick-OBrians-Navy-Illustrated-Companion/dp/0762415401), by Richard O’Neill, which is an excellent guide to the period. Even if you prefer one of the other writers on the period it puts all this naval stuff into context. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/206 "2024-07-01T21:10:35Z")
Bumped. A nice graphic of the crew of HMS _Surprise_: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AubreyMaturinSeries/comments/jge3g5/crew\_of\_hms\_surprise\_by\_geoff\_hunt/?rdt=56216](https://www.reddit.com/r/AubreyMaturinSeries/comments/jge3g5/crew_of_hms_surprise_by_geoff_hunt/?rdt=56216) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/207 "2025-04-22T19:45:45Z")
Bumped. Just came across this 2018 article, related to the film: > **[Russell Crowe’s violin sets new record at auction | Ingles & Hayday](https://ingleshayday.com/features/russell-crowes-violin-sets-new-record-at-auction/)** ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/208 "2025-04-22T20:04:54Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > But when you’ve read 20 novels that describe Aubrey’s physical bulk, and dozens of Maturin digs at how overweight he becomes, it jars a little. If you binge read them all, you get tired quickly of two jokes and one writer thing- Joke 1- The captain has managed to put up a new scrap of canvas and calls out the doctor to admire it- Joke 2 the Doctor sees some bird off in the distance and calls the captain to admire it. Then the writer constantly playing Lucy and the Football with the Captains wealth. That got REALLY annoying. Rich?.no poor- not Rich- nope, Poor, and so forth. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > I have to admit, I’m not fond of the Patrick O’Brian novels. They just never “worked” for me. But I love naval stories from that era – C.S. Forester, Alexander Kent, C. Northcote Parkinson etc. I think the Hornblower series is slightly better than O’Brian’s. But only after re-reading both several times. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/209 "2025-04-23T00:11:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Then the writer constantly playing Lucy and the Football with the Captains wealth. That got REALLY annoying. Rich?.no poor- not Rich- nope, Poor, and so forth. It may seem implausible but it is not a mere writer’s device. Aubrey was based in significant part on the life of Thomas Cochrane who experienced similar spectacular financial reverses. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I think the Hornblower series is slightly better than O’Brian’s. I read a days-of-sail naval adventure long ago that I’m pretty sure was Hornblower where the protagonists fell overboard and were picked up by a passing ship _in the middle of the Pacific_ at least twice if not three times in a day or perhaps a week. O’Brien based his ridiculously implausible plot points off actual events, and Douglas Adams had the good grace to use the writer’s device of the Improbability Drive to cover such inanity. I decided the book was one to be “thrown aside with great force” as Dorothy Parker would have it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/210 "2025-04-23T00:13:13Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I read a days-of-sail naval adventure long ago that I’m pretty sure was Hornblower where the protagonists fell overboard and were picked up by a passing ship _in the middle of the Pacific_ at least twice if not three times in a day or perhaps a week. Note in Hornblower. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/211 "2025-04-23T11:00:15Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I read a days-of-sail naval adventure long ago that I’m pretty sure was Hornblower where the protagonists fell overboard and were picked up by a passing ship _in the middle of the Pacific_ at least twice if not three times in a day or perhaps a week. I’ve re-read the Hornblower novels quite a few times. This doesn’t occur in any of them, so don’t go blaming some other writer’s absurdities on C.S. Forester. There is an incident in which a midshipman (who is a member of a foreign royal family) falls overboard during a pursuit by an enemy vessel. Dealing with this is, as you could imagine, a significant event, and it’s an opportunity to show off Hornblower’s cool head and cleverness. But this happened in the Mediterranean, and that midshipman didn’t fall overboard again. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/212 "2025-04-23T12:53:26Z")
Interesting, O’Brian had a very similar situation in Master & Commander, they were in the Med, being pursued by a much larger French ship, when a volunteer ship’s boy went overboard. He wasn’t a midshipman, but he was the son of Jack’s commanding officer’s banker. Jack of course briefly considered leaving him behind to be retrieved by the French or drown, rather than risk his entire ship & crew, but did skillfully rescue him instead. I wonder if that’s something that happened in Cochrane’s history as well, or if POB just borrowed it directly from Forester? There is an event in Fortune of War where Jack & Stephen wind up shipwrecked in the South Atlantic, with a dozen men in an 18 ft cutter. They are eventually rescued by another British Naval ship, which is later sunk in a battle with the USS Constitution, leading to Jack & Stephen’s adventures in Boston. But that’s at least plausible, the ship they were in was on the “normal” course from Capetown to England. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/213 "2025-04-23T14:47:17Z")
IIRC, O’Brian once had Capt. and Dr. go overboard in the middle of the Pacific only to be miraculously rescued by an outrigger entirely crewed by native women. I think the women debated eating them before stranding them on a tiny island where the _Surprise_ somehow discovered them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/214 "2025-04-23T19:43:13Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’ve re-read the Hornblower novels quite a few times. This doesn’t occur in any of them, so don’t go blaming some other writer’s absurdities on C.S. Forester. Correct. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/215 "2025-04-23T23:25:12Z")
I withdraw my comment. I wonder what book it was? I seem to recall it was part of a series and it was set in the British Navy in the same period as Hornblower/Aubrey. I don’t know what other series it might have been. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/216 "2025-04-24T00:46:41Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > IIRC, O’Brian once had Capt. and Dr. go overboard in the middle of the Pacific only to be miraculously rescued by an outrigger entirely crewed by native women. I think the women debated eating them before stranding them on a tiny island where the _Surprise_ somehow discovered them. This is _The Far Side of the World_; on the women’s boat, Stephen sees mutilated statues of men and evidence that the women have castrated several men. The 4th paragraph of the plot summary mentions the boat but not all of the details. > **[The Far Side of the World | Plot summary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Far_Side_of_the_World#Plot_summary)** > > Aubrey meets Admiral Ives, now in Gibraltar, who is pleased with the last mission of HMS Surprise, despite Aubrey's negative report. Mr Yarrow will rephrase it to make the success clearer to the Admiralty. The admiral is now a peer, his deepest wish, and he is a happy man. Aubrey dines with Laura Fielding and her husband, Lieutenant Fielding, who is now satisfied that his wife is true to him and thanks Aubrey for bringing her from Malta to Gibraltar (though it is Maturin who brought her to the sh... ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/217 "2025-04-24T00:47:06Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I don’t know what other series it might have been. As I mention in my first post, there are several other authors who wrote about the Navy in Napoleonic times – Alexander Kent, C. Northcote Parkinson, and several I['ve read, but can’t recall their names. I can’t recall any in which the scenario you describe takes place, though. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2025, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/218 "2025-04-26T03:17:53Z")
Nor I, but I think I remember the incident from _The Far Side of the World_: Stephen clumsily falls overboard from the great cabin’s aft windows, and Jack jumps in, too, to save him. They were alone in the great cabin and their ship sails on without them. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2025, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/219 "2025-04-26T04:16:57Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > There is an incident in which a midshipman (who is a member of a foreign royal family) falls overboard during a pursuit by an enemy vessel. If I recall correctly, once His Serene Highness Prince Whosit is rescued by Hornblower, he’s bent over a cannon and given six of the best with the bos’n’s cane, for endangering the ship. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2025, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/220 "2025-04-27T04:17:25Z")
I love Hornblower’s reflections on the caning: “Humanitarians had much to say against corporal punishment, but in their arguments, while pointing out the harm it might do to the one punished, they omitted to allow for the satisfaction other people derived from it.” > **[Hornblower and the Atropos \[Hornblower Saga #5\]](https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=20170645)** > > In the wake of a humbling incident aboard a canal boat in the Cotswolds, young Captain Horatio Hornblower arrives in London to take command of the Atropos, a 22-gun sloop barely large enough to require a captain. Her first assignment under... ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2025, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078/221 "2025-05-12T17:46:26Z")
Haven’t read this, but a friend has it, and it looks good - what it took to get the HMS _Surprise_ replica to the right place for filming: [All Hands on Deck: A Modern-Day High Seas Adventure to the Far Side of the World: Sofrin, Will: 9781419767067: Amazon.com: Books](https://www.amazon.com/All-Hands-Deck-Modern-Day-Adventure/dp/1419767062?crid=12L0M9CHRDMYN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.eS4vLglcc8m83WLvfd0s4jHRLXoz2sw59gtoUmwvqyRu-nBih18uaZhNPKwVbDumlPAZqFwnBiG5UEZapHU6sZu3-r6oVaBCDmQFHxRdP6cjfeGAM8M8BAPkgwdlHcABOiwp7cP4Nk5LWST_ApC5kziSm8cPCY8kuOoq7w8RNEJ8j1my5mZLSug4DhQ1Ul9_A63Ww5i4-2wuH_QUSQJamzvP4HVTcgsEkkoJMMmVcMk.iwZE-UySmOkeL6m7RpEu1cWe16YjOGz4EzPQIAihMso&dib_tag=se&keywords=all+hands+on+deck+book&qid=1747004764&sprefix=all+hands+on+d%2Caps%2C148&sr=8-1) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-patrick-obrians-novels/772078.md?page=12)