Thoughts on Patrick O'Brian's Novels?

He has Surprise on his side!

Why just read about it? I know some folks that will take you out to actually do it.

Well, digging a bullet out of your stomach is probably not gonna happen, but all the sailing stuff can still be done.

**Dissenting view - ** I loved Master and Commander, but I don’t like Patrick O’Brian’s books.

There are two other series you may want to look at. One is C.S. Forester’s Hornblower series, the other is Captain Frederick Marryat’s books - these two actually provided the inspiration for O’Brian.
The characters in C.S. Forrester’s novels are far more real. Horatio Hornblower is not the kind of unrealistic ‘superman’ that Aubrey is. He is a brilliant naval officer, but a difficult individual who makes real mistakes in his personal life, as well as occasionally in his professional life.

The quality of the writing is simply higher, and the technical details are even more authentic. The book to start with is Mr. Midshipman Hornblower, which is a series of short stories.
Then there is Captain Frederick Marryat.

Marryat was the real thing – an actual British navy captain who saw almost continuous action at sea from 1806 to 1830, serving in the Napoleonic wars, the War of 1812, and a colonial expedition to Burma amongst others.

But he later also became a very successful author who wrote about 30 books, and was a personal friend of Charles Dickens.

The difference is that he actually lived through everything he wrote about.

He was was an enlightened and liberal-minded officer, who was distinguished for bravery on several occasions, including single-handedly saving his ship as a young midshipman by going aloft in a hurricane to cut away the mainyard. He was refused a knighthood by King William IV because he had written a pamphlet strongly opposing the use of press gangs - but the French awarded him the Legion of Honour. He devised a code of flag signals which became standard usage in the 19th century, and was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society.

For anyone interested in novels containing authentic, detailed eyewitness accounts of navy battles and shipboard life in the age of sail, by someone who lived through everything he wrote about, his novels are highly recommended. His account (in his novel Peter Simple) of the process of ‘club-hauling’ a ship in a storm off a lee shore was made required reading in the British navy for the examination for lieutenant.

His semi-autobiographical novel Frank Mildmay, or The Naval Officer - the first novel he wrote - makes fascinating reading, because it’s basically his own story:

Probably his best work of fiction is Mr. Midshipman Easy, and he also wrote many more.

His books start slowly and are harder to get into than modern novels, but they are well worth the effort.

Lobscouse and Spotted Dog by Anne Chotzinoff Grossman and Lisa Grossman Thomas. If you’re at all interested in the food described in the novels (and there’s a lot of it), it’s a fantastic book. Full of period accurate recipes, interesting anecdotes about their experience making them, etc. So far I’ve made spotted dog, Admirals flip, ship’s biscuit and portable soup. I’ve still got a block of rendered suet waiting for the next recipe as well.

This is obviously a matter of opinion, but I couldn’t possibly disagree more. I found Forrester’s work dull and plodding, without the slightest bit of humor. O’Brian’s writing is of much higher quality IMHO. And Jack is hardly a superman - spoilered for the OP

He’s been defeated at sea and captured at least twice, and certainly was never above running from a fight if that was the best option.
His personal life is almost an unbroken string of mistakes - he’s lost unbelievable amounts of prize money by trusting con men on land, he was convicted of rigging the stock market, he almost ruined his marriage a few times because of his roving eye, etc.

You may prefer Forrester, and that’s fine, but I think your criticism of O’Brian is completely off the mark.

Jack throws the guns overboard to flee more quickly.
Hornblower would take on the French fleet with a brace of pistols and seaman Brown rowing a whale boat. :slight_smile:

I like both authors, but they surely have differing styles, for all love.

Was it Maryat who served with Lord Thomas Cochrane? Cochrane’s career is just one long adventure of real life derring-do…and financial scandal.

GreenWyvern, have you seen the film, “Captain Horatio Hornblower”? I believe Gregory Peck played the character very well.

He was Midshipman under Captain Cochrane.

Like Jack Aubrey, Marryat had a penchant for pulling guys out of the water. :slight_smile:

Yes, Marryat’s first ship (from 1806-1809) was HMS Imperieuse, under Cochrane’s command. No lack of action and adventure.

I’m astonished that PoB could be criticized for making Jack Aubrey an " unrealistic superman". His shortcomings are legion - it would be challenging to name a fictional hero with more. Indeed, one of the conspicuous strengths of these books is how the heroes (and heroines) have notable flaws and the villains have virtues.

I was a huge Hornblower fan before I ever heard of Patrick O’Brian. When I started on the Aubrey-Maturin series my first reaction was interest mixed with “the nerve of this author to imagine he can stand comparison with CSF.” After several books I’d grudgingly admitted that he’d actually put the Hornblower series - which I will always treasure - into second place.

Another book worth reading is Two Years before the Mast by Richard Dana.

It’s a non-fiction account of Dana’s voyage as an ordinary seaman from Boston to California around Cape Horn and back, in 1834-36.

The daily hardships of the life of a sailor are described more clearly here than in any other book I’ve read, and his account of the very difficult return trip around Cape Horn is simply unforgettable and unmatched anywhere.

California residents may also be interested in his descriptions of early California, while it still a province of Mexico. Dana describes the whole coast. He mentions, in passing, a small town of about 1000 inhabitants, the Pueblo de los Angeles. In San Francisco, there was the Mission house and not much else “There was no other habitation on this side of the Bay, except a shanty of rough boards put up by a man named Richardson…”

There’s also a riveting account of the severe scurvy they suffered on the way back due to lack of fresh supplies, and living for months only on ship’s biscuit, salt meat, and very weak tea without milk. They eventually met another ship that had a cargo of onions and potatoes and were able to obtain a boatload of them.

*“It was just dinner-time when we filled away, and the steward, taking a few bunches of onions for the cabin, gave the rest to us, with a bottle of vinegar. We carried them forward, stowed them away in the forecastle, refusing to have them cooked, and ate them raw, with our beef and bread. And a glorious treat they were. The freshness and crispness of the raw onion, with the earthy taste, give it a great relish to one who has been a long time on salt provisions. We were ravenous after them. It was like a scent of blood to a hound. We ate them at very meal, by the dozen, and filled our pockets with them, to eat in our watch on deck.”
*

I too am a big fan of O’Brian’s work, and found the one Hornblower novel I read to be pretty bland by comparison. Hornblower himself I found sortof irritating, with his constant “Oh god, I am such a bad Captain! Bad!” internal monologue that was supported by no actual facts, and there didn’t seem to be any interesting supporting characters. A large part of what makes O’Brian’s books work is the dichotomy of Jack & Stephen.

And yeah, I certainly don’t get any feeling that Jack is any more of a “superman” than Hornblower - they both have a tendency to score surprising victories, but Jack, while reasonably modest, doesn’t belittle himself.

But what was O’Brian thinking when he wrote the bear impersonation episode? That was a bit bizarre.

IIRC, Aubrey and Maturin were making an escape through enemy territory, with Aubrey in a bear suit…or something like that. Another example of O’Brian’s quirkiness, he takes a long time to reveal that it’s Aubrey inside the suit; he just has the bear speaking dialog.

More dry humor: I recall a scene where Aubrey is at home, planting cabbages, and he decides to place them 16" apart because that’s how far apart hammocks are slung, and if it’s good enough for an able seaman it’s good enough for cabbages.

Yes, his punctuation, or typesetting, is peculiar. I often have to re-read a page to notice that the scene has changed.

And you just have to let the nautical jargon wash over you, and absorb the gist through osmosis.

GreenWyvern, I get the impression that you dislike O’Brian because he’s less historically accurate and true to life than Maryat and Forrester. While that’s quite probably true - such as squeezing a good decade’s worth of action, including 2 circumnavigations, into 11 months of historical time - I don’t see it as a valid reason to declare the others better or higher quality. YMMV of course.

It’s a delightful scene. “Eh bien, a led bear knows how to dance - That is logic.”

I remember Stephen noticing that if you were quiet, you could hear the sound of the caterpillars eating the cabbages.

I believe the question, sir-- one which I have often entertained myself – is whether we are intended to believe that the residents of France --admittedly foreigners, Bonapartists, and often Papists, but not all fools nor Bedlamites-- would be so blind and easily practiced upon as to be universally incapable of knowing the difference between a bear, and a man garbed in the indifferently-preserved skin of a bear.
I fear that the episode, while droll, does put a great, perhaps fatal, strain upon my credulity.

Well, there’s always this.

I didn’t heed the warnings in this thread . . .

I downloaded Master and Commander to my Kindle at 9pm last night for “just an hour of reading before I go to sleep.”

Fast forward to 2am, and I have to self-pry the Kindle out of my paws and order myself to sleep, as I had a 7am waking time this morning.

This book is a lot of fun, really well-written, and the sailing language/terms are a joy to roll around in my brain. I can’t wait to get home today and resume!

Give you joy, Sir or Madam! Give you joy with all my heart.

That’s great that you fell in love so fast! I was still uncertain when I finished the first book - I had never read anything so intensely nautical before - but I cautiously started the second one. When I was in the middle of the third book, I placed an order for the 20-book set.

I don’t usually listen to audiobooks, but for this series it was a pleasure to hear the nautical portions read aloud, with the (I presume) correct pronunciation and cadence.