# Thoughts on Pornography **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2000, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-pornography/18530 "2000-05-04T05:15:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-pornography/18530/61 "2000-05-11T09:44:36Z")
Here it is…no evidence, but it sure as hell reflects my views on snuff… > [@](#): > > “You’d have to be completely naive to think they don’t exist,” says Andrew Vachss, an attorney who represents children and a best-selling author of thrillers. “Just because you haven’t seen any on network news doesn’t mean they’re not out there. When someone steals a Rembrandt, it doesn’t show up in a gallery. We know that the Shah of Iran kept videotapes of (the Iranian secret police) Savak torturing people to death. We also know that Idi Amin collected video equipment and routinely witnessed executions. You can draw your own conclusions.” ---
**Author:** ![Sentinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sentinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sentinel)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-pornography/18530/62 "2000-05-11T12:37:11Z")
Being well heeled in the vagaries of human eccentricities, I would not be hesitant to reason that if there is a demand for fake snuff films, that somewhere, some place out there, someone has made real ones. I’ve come to the conclusion that if there is anything perverted anywhere, _someone_ not only has done it, but likes it and continues to do it, no matter the risk involved. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-pornography/18530/63 "2000-05-11T13:52:47Z")
I’ll happily concede the point that deaths may have been deliberately filmed and watched for pleasure. And I’ve seen my fair share of Real Death on TV, though these were accidents and/or crimes that were not filmed for arousal purposes. Perhaps we should redefine the term. When I think snuff, I think “An act of fatal violence against a woman, deliberately filmed for the purpose of sexual arousal, and intended for commercial distribution.” Admittedly, this is a pretty narrow definition. If we expand the definition, we expand the possibilites that such things exist. > [@](#): > > Relax big guy…I won’t be able to find empirical evidence that it exists, just quotes from people who’ve done the research and swear that it does… > > Like this girl… Watch out who you call a girl! Catharine Mackinnon will cut your oppressive male stones off. She equates _any_ sexuality whatsoever to rape. She is a lawyer with a strong anti-male agenda. She wants to repeal the first amandment. Is this true? I don’t know, but here’s a good site for you: [http://www.spectacle.org/1195/mack.html](http://www.spectacle.org/1195/mack.html) In light of that, I would tend to dismiss her when she says “I know these things exist, I just can’t prove it, but I know it, therefore all men are oppressive rapists.” So much for MacKinnon. On to Andrew Vachss. Also a crusader against pornography. A man with an agenda. A man to whom research is an unneccessary luxury in his crusade for family values. I think we can dismiss him too. I think your (and Sentinel’s) point is well made. There may well have been a few killings filmed for the pure pleasure of it. But a thriving snuff industry? One has yet to prove it to me. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-pornography/18530/64 "2000-05-11T16:55:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > But a thriving snuff industry? One has yet to prove it to me. > \*\* Dammitt tdn! For the **last** _frigging_ time– I have yet to say anything about a Thriving industry! In fact, I think I’ve said the exact opposite, but hold my ground on “there are at least a few snuff films that exist”. **Grrrrooooowwwwlll…** What’s up with you man? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-pornography/18530/65 "2000-05-11T19:23:03Z")
You are calling me a whiner and a cry baby, yet you are doing all of the "aaaarrrrggghhh"ing and growling. What’s up with that? And notice that I never accused you of believing in a “Thriving” industry, although some of your posts seem to indicate otherwise. I was merely trying to set the record straight for all. And I thought that we were coming to a meeting of the minds here. I guess I was wrong. Can we agree on this statement?: “While there is clearly no thriving snuff film industry, it is well within the realm of possibility that a a few snuff films have been made, though no authentic examples have yet surfaced.” That would satisfy me. How about you? I’m guessing not… ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-pornography/18530/66 "2000-05-11T21:46:13Z")
Actually, films of people getting murdered for sexual purposes do indeed exist; there’s a famous one in Canada, of the serial killer Paul Bernardo and his wife Karla Homolka murdering two schoolgirls. And non-photographic snuff erotica (stories and drawings) definitely exist; I’ve seen it. _squick_ But a snuff film _industry_? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2000, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-pornography/18530/67 "2000-05-11T21:46:47Z")
Actually, films of people getting murdered for sexual purposes do indeed exist; there’s a famous one in Canada, of the serial killer Paul Bernardo and his wife Karla Homolka murdering two schoolgirls. And non-photographic snuff erotica (stories and drawings) definitely exist; I’ve seen it. _squick_ But a snuff film _industry_? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2000, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-pornography/18530/68 "2000-05-12T03:08:34Z")
\*\*Can we agree on this statement?: “While there is clearly no thriving snuff film industry, it is well within the realm of possibility that a a few snuff films have been made, though no authentic examples have yet surfaced.” That would satisfy me. How about you? I’m guessing not…\*\* First off, that’s exactly what my posts were getting at. If it wasn’t so clear, I apologize, and please re-read them. And yes I’m “Grrrr-ing” and “Argh-ing”. You haven’t seen my point in any of my posts, and they were all about the same thing–that while some snuff exists, there is no industry. So, yes, I’m a bit frustrated with you tdn. But it’s all good, and I’m through with this subject. Good chatting with you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-pornography/18530.md?page=3)