# Thoughts on the Jedi Prophecy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 18, 2002, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697 "2002-05-18T12:58:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NardoPolo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NardoPolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NardoPolo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/1 "2002-05-18T12:58:31Z")
So, we’ve been told this prophecy about a strong Jedi who will come around and return balance to the force. Maybe this Annekin guy is the one, but Yoda seems to have doubts. I used to think that the prophecy was mis-identified with Annekin, but really should have been applied to Luke. Luke brings balance to the force by not just defeating his father, but also convincing him to turn sides. Besides, Luke is essentially the only Jedi left at the end, so he **is** the personification of the balanced force. But now it’s dawning on me. The imbalance in the force is caused by the existance of the Sith… the irony (necessary for any prophesy) is that Annekin/Darth defeats the Sith by first becoming one, and then throwing the Palpatine/Sidious down the hole. So, the whole series is essentially about the corruption and then redemption of this Annekin fellow. Call me a slow learner. ---
**Author:** ![epraz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/82dd89/32.png) [@epraz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epraz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/2 "2002-05-18T15:22:27Z")
What is the “balance” that the prophesy predicts between, though? If the Sith are unbalancing it with their increasing power, wouldn’t getting rid of all the dark side “forcers” unbalance it too? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/3 "2002-05-18T15:38:25Z")
See, I always figured the Jedi were being dumb. If it’s out of balance in the beginning, I would think it’s because there are a lot of Jedi and few Sith - the light side is more popular than the dark side. So Vader brings it back into balance by whacking all the Jedi and using the Dark Side like mad for a few decades. Obviously, though, the Jedi aren’t thinking like that. I don’t know what it’s “supposed” to mean, but the OP’s theory is as good as any I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![Koffing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@Koffing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koffing)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/4 "2002-05-18T18:04:56Z")
I thought the same thing, **Smeghead**. I mean, it seems obvious, especially because after Vader does the great Jedi purge, there are only two left, Obi-Wan and Yoda. Two Sith and two Jedi equals balance in the Force. ---
**Author:** ![NardoPolo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NardoPolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NardoPolo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/5 "2002-05-19T02:06:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Koffing \* > …after Vader does the great Jedi purge, there are only two left, Obi-Wan and Yoda. Two Sith and two Jedi equals balance in the Force. Clever. Makes sense… Except that after the purge, the “dark-side” Jedis are, um, in positions as supreme rulers of the universe (you know, that _emperor_ title and all?) while the “light-side” jedis are living like hermits on inhospitable planets. Doesn’t sound very balanced to me. No, the balance comes around when all the sith are destroyed, and only one Jedi is left. Luke, being a good kid but kinda stupid, represents balance. At least that’s my take on it. Seems cogent. But hey I’ve been wrong before. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/6 "2002-05-19T04:39:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NardoPolo \* > **Clever. Makes sense… Except that after the purge, the “dark-side” Jedis are, um, in positions as supreme rulers of the universe (you know, that _emperor_ title and all?) while the “light-side” jedis are living like hermits on inhospitable planets. Doesn’t sound very balanced to me.** Well, but for the last umpteen generations, the light side Jedi have been large and in charge, while the dark siders have been skulking around in big scary cloaks in back alleys. So there really is some balance there. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/7 "2002-05-19T05:23:23Z")
Yeah, I know what you’re thinking. Balance means Light Side = Dark Side. Too bad prophecies are rarely so straightforward. And even if that were the case, we still can’t make the leap to balance meaning Number of Jedi = Number of Sith. Furthermore, I should point out that there’s a lot more to the Force than just the Jedi and the Sith. The Force flows through every living being. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/8 "2002-05-19T05:38:32Z")
:mad: Yeah, and it talks to us through midichlorians (spelling), which coincidentally have evolved in every single sentient species in the galaxy. ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/9 "2002-05-19T19:24:21Z")
I wondered about this too after seeing Phantom Menace, but I think AotC cleared most of it up for me. The key scene for this debate in AotC is where Mace Windu and Yoda are talking about how the Jedi are weaker than they used to be and how the Dark Side has clouded them. This is a pretty big deal, when you think about it, since the Jedi are a pretty self-righteous, almost cocky, group of people. As understated as this scene is, it is perhaps the most important of the movie, second only to Anakin’s massacre of the Tusken Raider village (Note, these scenes are adjacent in the movie.) Another key element: When Dooku is talking to a captive Obi-Wan, he mentions how members of the Senate have been controlled by the Dark Side for years, and that Qui-Gon Jinn knew it, too. Though Dooku is a Sith, he’s telling the truth here. He just knows that Obi-Wan and the Jedi Council won’t believe him because of the aforementioned self-righteousness and cockiness. What this all means is that the Force was already unbalanced at the time of Phantom Menace, but only a few Jedi actually knew it or were willing to admit it. It clearly is not about numbers. It’s about power. And in both Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, the Dark Side is gaining power while the Light is losing it. Basically, by time Phantom Menace starts, the Dark Side is already controlling at least 50 percent + 1 of the Force energy out there. They don’t have the numbers, but they do have the power. More importantly, the Jedi don’t have a clue this is going on. As to how Anakin will restore this balance, I don’t know. You could argue it’s through his children, but that seems rather half-assed. Or you could argue that he restores balance when he throws the Emperor into the Death Star’s reactor core. This seems more plausible, since he’s killing one Sith and returning to the Jedi order all at the same time, thus breaking the master/apprentice cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/10 "2002-05-19T21:59:46Z")
**SNenc** -um, do you MIND? How about a spoiler warning for those of us who haven’t seen it yet? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![foxfiregrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3da27b/32.png) [@foxfiregrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foxfiregrrl)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/11 "2002-05-19T22:59:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\ ***SNenc** -um, do you MIND? How about a spoiler warning for those of us who haven’t seen it yet? > > :mad: \*\* Uh… it’s a bummer, **Guinastasia** , that you got spoiled, but, um, he didn’t exactly bring up the spoilers out of nowhere. > [@](#): > > I wondered about this too after seeing Phantom Menace, but I think AotC cleared most of it up for me. > > The key scene for this debate in AotC is where … Not exactly unavoidable… ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/12 "2002-05-20T17:16:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SNenc \* > \*\*As to how Anakin will restore this balance, I don’t know. You could argue it’s through his children, but that seems rather half-assed. \*\* So he is prophecised to lay pipe with Natalie Portman? Nice. I gotta get me a prophecy. BTW, anyone still buy the whole immaculate conception thing, or will someone like Palpatine become Annikan’s dad in Episode 3? ---
**Author:** ![NardoPolo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NardoPolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NardoPolo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/13 "2002-05-21T01:52:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*BTW, anyone still buy the whole immaculate conception thing, or will someone like Palpatine become Annikan’s dad in Episode 3? \*\* Good heavens! That would certainly be a shocker. I may just have to ponder it a bit… But thanks, **SNec**. I’m pretty much agreeing with you on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/14 "2002-05-21T02:16:21Z")
Qui-Gon was right when he believed that Skywalker was the one who would bring “balance to the Force”. The problem is that he’s a generation too early…I think it’s _Luke_ that will eventually bring balance to the Force, since it’s Luke that is the catalyst for the destruction of Emperor Palpatine, and the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-jedi-prophecy/109697/15 "2002-05-21T02:29:16Z")
I don’t know, after reading some of the other threads here I’m tempted to think the Jedis are the most overrated good guys in sci-fi history. It seems like they brought the galactic war upon themselves by being so out-of-touch and antiquated in their methods.