# Thoughts on the Kobayashi Maru **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 11, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813 "2013-01-11T02:09:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/41 "2013-01-12T15:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Most likely the tricks he used were things that would work in the simulation but not in real life. Essentially, he was taking advantage of shortcuts and sloppiness in the simulation’s physics engine and AI. I’ll concede that the tricks of mucking about with the enemy shields don’t work (after all, we don’t know just how shields do work), but what’s wrong with beaming out antimatter? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/42 "2013-01-12T16:43:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, he learns at the end of _Wrath of Khan_ that some realities can’t be rejected. > At least until the sequel. Well yeah. That was the whole theme of the movie. He finally faced the no-win situation and the only way out was with Spock’s death. The whole reason for them to mention the KM at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/43 "2013-01-12T18:48:18Z")
Any guesses to how Picard would have handled the Kobayashi Maru? I’m guessing his usual “i am the arbiter of succession” schtick wouldn’t work ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/44 "2013-01-12T19:24:34Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > Any guesses to how Picard would have handled the Kobayashi Maru? I’m guessing his usual “i am the arbiter of succession” schtick wouldn’t work He would recite Shakespeare until the Klingons fell asleep from boredom and rescue the Kobiashi Maru. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/45 "2013-01-12T19:35:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > He would recite Shakespeare until the Klingons fell asleep from boredom and rescue the Kobiashi Maru. You may be right. You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/46 "2013-01-12T19:37:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ll concede that the tricks of mucking about with the enemy shields don’t work (after all, we don’t know just how shields do work), but what’s wrong with beaming out antimatter? I recall reading in a TNG technical manual from the 90s that it was imposable to beam out antimatter (except in very small quantities in specialized containers, to cover their ass from when Wesley beamed some of that other ship in that war games episode). #Dorkmeister ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/47 "2013-01-12T19:40:34Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > I recall reading in a TNG technical manual from the 90s that it was imposable to beam out antimatter (except in very small quantities in specialized containers, to cover their ass from when Wesley beamed some of that other ship in that war games episode). #Dorkmeister I vaguely remember from the novel that Scotty did things in the test that the computer did not realize to be physically impossible. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/48 "2013-01-12T19:49:36Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > You think he’s not? Other than the different middle initial on a tombstone (later wanked away as an in-joke between Kirk and Mitchell) is there any indication of that? > > . Nope. Old Kirk had _cojones_, New Kirk has _angst_. Not even vaguely comparable. Spock is worse. But Scotty and McCoy weren’t done badly at all. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/49 "2013-01-12T19:51:03Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > Any guesses to how Picard would have handled the Kobayashi Maru? I’m guessing his usual “i am the arbiter of succession” schtick wouldn’t work He’d DEMAND they accept his surrender. This would allow the KB to escape but doom the Enterprise until his crew pulled some techno miracle. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/50 "2013-01-12T20:51:14Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > Any guesses to how Picard would have handled the Kobayashi Maru? I’m guessing his usual “i am the arbiter of succession” schtick wouldn’t work Dude had a combat maneuver named after him. I’m sure there was a reasonable number of Klingon casualties on his watch. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/51 "2013-01-12T21:03:36Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Dude had a combat maneuver named after him. I’m sure there was a reasonable number of Klingon casualties on his watch. I believe he was fighting Cardassians, though. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/52 "2013-01-12T22:26:59Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I believe he was fighting Cardassians, though. Nope, [Ferengi](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Picard_Maneuver) - ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/53 "2013-01-12T23:05:35Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Nope, [Ferengi](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Picard_Maneuver) - Yeah, some guy’s Father tried to get even with Picard years later. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/54 "2013-01-12T23:48:01Z")
Alternate-timeline Picard went down fighting, or at least was about to when the _Enterprise_-C went back into the time rift. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/55 "2013-01-13T00:45:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope. Old Kirk had _cojones_, New Kirk has _angst_. > > Not even vaguely comparable. Spock is worse. > > But Scotty and McCoy weren’t done badly at all. I was referring to the changes in Kirk between the second pilot (“Where No Man Has Gone Before”) and the rest of the series, not the difference between the original series/movies and the reboot. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/56 "2013-01-13T02:14:16Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Nope, [Ferengi](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Picard_Maneuver) - Then they wrote the Ferengi so ridiculously that it backfired. Picard bravely (and barely) defeated the terrible legions of… cowardly, useless morons. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/57 "2013-01-13T02:15:28Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Then they wrote the Ferengi so ridiculously that it backfired. Picard bravely (and barely) defeated the terrible legions of… cowardly, useless morons. Absolutely. The Ferengi were supposed to be the Big Bad for that season, and they ended up being WAY too silly (particularly when the guy used the hentai whip on people). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/58 "2013-01-13T02:17:36Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Then they wrote the Ferengi so ridiculously that it backfired. Picard bravely (and barely) defeated the terrible legions of… cowardly, useless morons. The producer just thought that greedy moneyloving mercenary creatures were so very evil to him, everyone else would think so. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/59 "2013-01-13T03:16:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I vaguely remember from the novel that Scotty did things in the test that the computer did not realize to be physically impossible. Quite so. In fact, Scotty himself had actually written a rule, before he even entered the Academy, that ended up in a tech manual, that proved that his very last strategy (the one about the shield junctions) was impossible. The same wasn’t said about beaming the antimatter, though, and the transporter operator’s reaction to Scotty’s order about beaming back _just_ the container was, “Holy cow.” ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813/60 "2013-01-13T04:15:26Z")
If beaming can be done with such precision (as it seems not to be, elsewhere), why send the container over in the first place? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-kobayashi-maru/646813.md?page=4)