# Thoughts on the suspension of this professor? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 4, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830 "2020-09-04T18:08:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/201 "2020-09-06T20:46:48Z")
> [@Terwilliger](#): > > Did he say I’m at a loss as to what point you’re trying to make here. If you keep doing it I’m going to suspect that it’s an excuse to just write a disparaged slur repeatedly to antagonize. ETA: double ninja ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/202 "2020-09-06T20:54:19Z")
We might be headed towards the Pit now. Look k9bfriender, just go with Occams Razor. Which is the likelier explanation: 1. The professor deliberately set out with intent to stealthily sneak in the N-word to harass his black listeners, or 2. The professor used a legit, extremely common word in Mandarin and his Mandarin-ignorant students somehow took offense at anyway despite it being innocuous? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/203 "2020-09-06T20:59:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But, I certainly did take yours, and many other posters to imply that these people should be singled out for ridicule. What on earth do you mean “singled out”? The people who wrote the accusation are obviously the people who are responsible for its content. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Sure, their claims should be addressed on their merits, but you are addressing them based on your impression of their immaturity and stupidity, not on their merits. Again, _the only thing I know about them_ is the content of the accusation that they wrote, my opinion of them is based solely on the merits of that accusation, so logically I don’t see what distinction you are trying to draw here. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/204 "2020-09-06T21:03:50Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > his Mandarin-ignorant students In fact, they said in their accusation: > “In addition, we have lived abroad in China and have taken Chinese language courses at several colleges and this phrase, clearly and precisely before instruction is always identified as a phonetic homonym and a racial derogatory term, and should be carefully used, especially in the context of speaking Chinese within the social context of the United States.” …so they conceded that (some of them at least) were already perfectly well aware of the existence of the word in Mandarin and how it sounds. Their beef seems to be based on an incorrect belief that he was _mis_pronouncing it maliciously, and perhaps the absence of an explicit trigger warning. ---
**Author:** ![Terwilliger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Terwilliger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terwilliger)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/205 "2020-09-06T21:06:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Look k9bfriender, just go with Occams Razor. Which is the likelier explanation: > > 1. The professor deliberately set out with intent to stealthily sneak in the N-word to harass his black listeners, or > 2. The professor used a legit, extremely common word in Mandarin and his Mandarin-ignorant students somehow took offense at anyway despite it being innocuous? My same question worded differently. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/206 "2020-09-06T21:08:20Z")
I don’t know what the professor was thinking, but I remember being in French camp as a kid, and we were supposed to name our team for some activity. Some wiseass in the group wanted us to name ourselves Dead Seals, a perfectly valid name. The French translation of which is “Phoques Morts,” and sounds like “Fuck More”. Our counselors, not being on their first rodeo, flat-out vetoed the name. Of course the prof didn’t say a slur, any more than the wiseass camper said an obscenity. It would be ridiculous to chastise a French child who told an adult, “Il y a beaucoup des phoques morts sur le plage!” (unless they were chastised for shitty sentence construction, in which case please blame my high school French). It was entirely appropriate to roll eyes at an American Anglophone teen using the phrase in a different context. The professor likely knew the phonetic similarity between the Mandarin word and the American racist slur. He likely knew that English-speaking American students unfamiliar with Mandarin and not taking a class in Mandarin would do a double-take on hearing it. Does anyone doubt either of these points? If we agree on these two points, why would he use that specific example, knowing the reaction it would entail from his specific audience? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/207 "2020-09-06T21:08:38Z")
I am not saying your number 1, so I’m not sure what your point is. Try this Occam’s razor. The professor had a little joke that he used to help people remember this lesson. He had gotten positive feedback from _some_ students in the past, so kept using it. Vs. The professor of communications teaching a class on effective communication had no way of knowing how it would sound to native English speakers. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/208 "2020-09-06T21:11:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The professor used a legit, extremely common word in Mandarin and his Mandarin-ignorant students somehow took offense at anyway despite it being innocuous? I’ll take doorway #2. I’ll hazard a guess that **a lot** of people, including ‘Dopers, have learned from this, but the tuition will be dreadfully high for some of them. That I regret for all involved. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/209 "2020-09-06T21:13:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > - The professor deliberately set out with intent to stealthily sneak in the N-word to harass his black listeners, or > - The professor used a legit, extremely common word in Mandarin and his Mandarin-ignorant students somehow took offense at anyway despite it being innocuous? It seems likeliest to me that: - The professor was engaged in a bit of cross-language wordplay, hoping students would find it amusing trivia and would be re-engaged in his lecture by the quick jolt of thinking he was being transgressive before realizing he wasn’t. His audience figured out what he was doing, but weren’t amused. I think he knew what he was doing, and I think he believed that since the term’s resemblance to a slur is coincidental, his use of it is ultimately innocent. I think some of his audience are sick of that “I’m not touching you!” kind of humor. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/210 "2020-09-06T21:18:53Z")
If anything, this should have been a valuable lesson for his listeners: _Things are not necessarily what they seem at first_. Perhaps the world would benefit **more** from people being constantly exposed to a constant stream of _neigas, phoques morts, etc_, so people will learn not to jump to conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/211 "2020-09-06T21:21:14Z")
But not a lesson to speakers, that how you present your message is important, so as not to be misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![Terwilliger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Terwilliger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terwilliger)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/212 "2020-09-06T21:25:58Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The professor had a little joke that he used to help people remember this lesson. He had gotten positive feedback from _some_ students in the past, so kept using it. So your theory is that this secret racist became a PHD in communications, got a job at USC, just so he could call POC n-words. And he goes home laughing about every time he tells this racist joke? Or is neiga a common chinese filler word he was discussing. ---
**Author:** ![WitnessMe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/witnessme/32/4597_2.png) [@WitnessMe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WitnessMe)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/213 "2020-09-06T21:28:55Z")
What’s the joke? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/214 "2020-09-06T21:29:49Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If anything, this should have been a valuable lesson for his listeners: _Things are not necessarily what they seem at first_ . He could achieve that lesson by stabbing them with a stage knife with a retractable blade; but if someone had been subjected to violence before, they might not be amused by the lesson. I think there may be a valuable lesson for a communications professor as well: _you don’t always get to choose how your communication is heard_, so you should consider the audience. An audience that knew exactly what he was doing might still be irked at him, and I don’t think a lot of folks are getting that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/215 "2020-09-06T21:31:16Z")
> [@Terwilliger](#): > > So your theory is that this secret racist became a PHD in communications, got a job at USC, just so he could call POC n-words. And he goes home laughing about every time he tells this racist joke? Like, I’m serious here, and how you respond will help me figure out how to talk to you. _Is this really your best reading comprehension effort_? Are you genuinely trying to understand what folks are saying to you? Or are you playing a fun game where you deliberately misinterpret people to make them sound bad? ---
**Author:** ![Terwilliger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Terwilliger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terwilliger)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/216 "2020-09-06T21:34:39Z")
Ok let me be really specific. Do you, left hand of dorkness, think he said the n-word or the chinese filler word. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/217 "2020-09-06T21:37:07Z")
I think I’ve been really clear on my answer here. He said the Chinese filler word. He understood, and intended, that the hearer would be momentarily taken aback by the similarity between the word he said and a racist slur. Language is about communication of concepts and aesthetics through verbal means. His communication worked on two different levels. You’re focusing on only one. Are you aware of the other possible intended communication? ---
**Author:** ![Terwilliger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Terwilliger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terwilliger)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/218 "2020-09-06T21:38:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > He understood, and intended, that Thats where we disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/219 "2020-09-06T21:42:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > …English-speaking American students unfamiliar with Mandarin and not taking a class in Mandarin would do a double-take on hearing it. Does anyone doubt either of these points? See my post two before yours. The students who made the complaint said explicitly that they had studied Mandarin and were familiar with the word and its aural similarity to the slur. Unfamiliarity was not the basis of _their_ complaint. Although, in general, of course this might not be true. But look also further upthread at the video or the transcript. He said clearly and explicitly - twice - that he was talking about a filler word in Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830/220 "2020-09-06T21:43:13Z")
You disagree that he understood what people would momentarily think they heard? This white dude who may (I can’t verify) have grown up in an English-speaking country, possibly even the one he’s teaching in, didn’t know what folks who don’t speak Mandarin would hear? Huh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-suspension-of-this-professor/919830.md?page=12)