# Thoughts on the viral 'New York catcalling' video? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 31, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179 "2014-10-31T23:08:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/41 "2014-11-01T18:07:54Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > They literally admit to removing the white men, what part of this are you missing? Yes, when 1) the American public started getting all up in arms about it and they had to respond, and 2) for seemingly valid reasons (poor video/sound quality). They did not say ‘We removed all the white men because we didn’t want white men in the video’, they removed white men, AND men of other races, because of poor video/sound quality. Some of you are focusing in on omgz, so RACIST and missing the entire point of the exercise. Again, red herring. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/42 "2014-11-01T18:11:02Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > “Good morning, ma’am” is a very different thing from “Hey, hot-lookin’!” or “Dayum, dat ass!” My impression from the video and the surrounding commentaries, is that even “Good morning, ma’am” would be considered highly inappropriate and taken by the young lady in question as a catcall. There were, even in the brief version I saw, several comments no more imflammatory than that, which were left in as examples of the outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/43 "2014-11-01T18:12:59Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > So, maybe a little bit of self reflection on that is warranted. Do you all really pay that much attention to race? Maybe it’s _you_ who are a little bit racist, and not necessarily the creator of the video. It feels like a red herring, tbh. "Black guys are helpless lechers who want to steal our white women"[is a meme with](http://hoaxes.org/archive/permalink/the_miscegenation_hoax) [an ugly history in this country.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws) When a video purporting to focus on sexism uses a white woman being catcalled exclusively by black and Latino men, and the filmmaker admits to editing out the white men, it’s hard not to speculate on the filmmaker’s intent. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/44 "2014-11-01T18:16:00Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > My impression from the video and the surrounding commentaries, is that even “Good morning, ma’am” would be considered highly inappropriate and taken by the young lady in question as a catcall. You do realize she is a hired actress and had nothing to do with the video idea, right? None of us have any idea what her thoughts are on the catcalls. Maybe she personally has no issue with any of it. The point is, in _general_, most women don’t appreciate it, and in many cases, it comes across as scary and threatening. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/45 "2014-11-01T18:21:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > "Black guys are helpless lechers who want to steal our white women"[is a meme with](http://hoaxes.org/archive/permalink/the_miscegenation_hoax) [an ugly history in this country.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws) When a video purporting to focus on sexism uses a white woman being catcalled exclusively by black and Latino men, and the filmmaker admits to editing out the white men, it’s hard not to speculate on the filmmaker’s intent. Yeah, I understand the history (I’m Canadian). I guess it’s just an observation about where Americans as a culture are on in the whole race debate. It’s a sensitive issue, of course, and I know that the US is really trying to move away from separation of race. But when everything comes down to race, even by those who are vehemently anti-racist…well, separation of race will never go away. Everyone is so focused on the unfair racial perspective in the video that they’re missing the point of the whole thing, which is that women in some areas (this isn’t universal, obviously) feel threatened by catcalls and other behaviour. It’s an issue, and the one that’s the whole point of it all. Not race. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/46 "2014-11-01T18:30:16Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Ok, let’s assume all that is true. Women who walk many hours a day through distinct neighborhoods in NYC get cat-called. That is only somewhat interesting knowledge in its own right and only applies to rather unique and intentionally engineered situations. New York is one of the ‘world cities’ rather than a typical U.S. city. You are going to get people from lots of different cultures mixing on the streets there and some of them are going to do some things that they see as innocent or complimentary but others see as threatening. The whole point of the video is that men _don’t_ realize that this goes on, so “this doesn’t happen where I live,” from a guy, is almost certain to be wrong to one degree or another, and the idea that this tells us only about “distinct neighborhoods in NYC” is insane. In case you assumed otherwise, I’ve lived in New York my whole life and I _don’t_ see (or notice) this kind of thing going on: women do. I only know it happens because women, almost without exception, describe it as being very frequent. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/47 "2014-11-01T18:35:08Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > Everyone is so focused on the unfair racial perspective in the video that they’re missing the point of the whole thing, which is that women in some areas (this isn’t universal, obviously) feel threatened by catcalls and other behaviour. It’s an issue, and the one that’s the whole point of it all. Not race. Perhaps it is an issue, but this video doesn’t do a very good job of making that case by cherry-picking a few incidents with gentlemen of a certain ethnicity out of hours and hours of raw footage. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/48 "2014-11-01T18:37:09Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > The whole point of the video is that men _don’t_ realize that this goes on, so “this doesn’t happen where I live,” from a guy, is almost certain to be wrong to one degree or another, and the idea that this tells us only about “distinct neighborhoods in NYC” is insane. In case you assumed otherwise, I’ve lived in New York my whole life and I _don’t_ see (or notice) this kind of thing going on: women do. I only know it happens because women, almost without exception, describe it as being very frequent. Yeah, and I think that’s the whole point. They used an extreme example (NYC) to make it. But it happens in many areas, in whatever measure. Being catcalled is annoying at best, scary at worst. Not all men should be painted with the same broad brush because I’m sure most of the men here wouldn’t do this, but when your buddy or even some random guy smacks the ass of some random woman on the street (I was that woman), or yells out ‘you have a pretty mouth’ in a creepy way to the lady on the other side of the street (I was also that woman), maybe say something bro to bro. Men need to learn to dial it back, and it’ll work better if it comes from other men (because in most cases, if the woman says something, she’s a bitch at best, or going to get some physical violence at worst). ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/49 "2014-11-01T18:46:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Perhaps it is an issue, but this video doesn’t do a very good job of making that case by cherry-picking a few incidents with gentlemen of a certain ethnicity out of hours and hours of raw footage. Given the amount of comments this has caused I’m surprised the film maker has not offered up the whole 10 hours of raw footage for viewing. That would answer many of the questions people have about this video and give him even more buzz. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/50 "2014-11-01T18:56:06Z")
So, my takeaway from this thread is that women everywhere are too sensitive, and that if we just move to an affluent city where no Black or Hispanic men live or work, we’ll be fine. Really? That’s what you’re going with? White men don’t do this (except when they do) so it’s not a problem? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/51 "2014-11-01T19:52:43Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I don’t like those types of public interactions either and that is why I don’t live in NYC or even visit there despite it being not very far away. However, I believe the implication is that this a universal phenomenon and that is not true. You can find it in Latino culture, black culture and some blue collar white cultures but not in middle class or suburban white culture. If anyone wants to be politely ignored, they can come live or visit where I live, 'The safest city in America", outside of Boston. There is no cat-calling from anybody. The only time strangers will yell out anything thing at all is when they want to see raffle tickets or Girl Scout cookies as a fundraiser. The fuck it doesn’t happen there, and middle class white guys don’t do that. They might not outright scream across the street when there are other people around to see and hear, but I’ve had plenty of middle class white guys make all kinds of gross comments and “accidentally” brush against my boobs or ass. Not in a “world city” either–I’ve never spent any time in one of those by myself. It’s happened in small towns and suburbs and small cities, always when I was by myself or with another woman, and almost always juuuuust subtle enough that other people couldn’t make out what he was saying or doing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/52 "2014-11-01T20:02:56Z")
> [@MrLee](#): > > What particularly drew my interest was this comment from Slate…Some noticed that most, if not all, of the men doing the harassing were black or latino. This will be fodder for some ultra-right-wing/neo-KKK sorts, for sure (‘White men don’t do that shit because we’re _better_!’), but [this writer](http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/10/31/catcalling_what_hollaback_s_viral_video_reveals_about_white_men_and_street.html) had another explanation: I actually laughed at the writer’s comments: " As a biracial woman of color who, despite being half-white, likely “reads” black to many people, I’ve walked into parties thrown by traditionally white fraternities and bars with a diverse crowd, and white guys have gawked at me ever so slightly, engaging with me as they would an exotic animal at a zoo." 2 things here: “gawked at ever so slightly” is a furtive glance and not a cat call. 2nd, in order for her to SEE the furtive glance she had to be looking at him in the first place which makes HER the gawker. Men and women glance at each other all the time in social settings. How the look is returned is a subtle cue as to whether or not conversations are struck up. I’ve never known or witnessed a guy to actually cat-call a woman. It’s the height of rudeness. The lady in the video was walking past men sitting or standing around doing nothing or shilling some backwater storefront. The whole thing looked like a stroll through the low-rent district. Beyond the cat-calls I found the 2 guys shadowing her to far more disturbing. It’s practically a commercial for CCW classes and pepper spray products. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/53 "2014-11-01T20:11:03Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I think the video was mainly Hispanic and AA men because that’s really 99% of what they had as responses. [Korean millionaires are a problem too.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/54 "2014-11-01T20:21:59Z")
My takeaway is that the catcalling happened disproportionately from black and Hispanic men. Not only, just disproportionately. Then the video makers fell afoul of political correctness and defensive white men, who seized on the editing. And I would also like to find out if this was the only ten hours they filmed, or if there was a larger, perhaps much larger, amount of film they cut because it showed nothing in particular. This is like a reality show. They want people to watch it, and nobody is going to watch ten hours of 90% people paying no attention to her, 9% people smiling or saying “Good morning”, and 1% of jerks being jerks. I have no idea if those proportions are exaggerated, close to the truth, or something else. But that’s the point. Regards. Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/55 "2014-11-01T20:22:19Z")
I think this short documentary was half-assed but I can’t wait for the sequel. In Street Assault II, this chick flips right the hell out when she visits the New Orleans French Quarter during Mardi Gras. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/56 "2014-11-01T20:30:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > My takeaway is that the catcalling happened disproportionately from black and Hispanic men. Not only, just disproportionately. Then the video makers fell afoul of political correctness and defensive white men, who seized on the editing. So? What if you are correct? Then what? Do you think it changes the fact that the woman’s experience was not a good one because more of the people harassing her have darker skin? If it makes you feel better that you have one more detail not in common with these men, then…um…yay? Still made her day suck. Still something you can step up and stop, as men talking to other men and telling them what’s cool and what isn’t (as they’re clearly the kind of men who won’t listen to women about it.) > [@](#): > > I have no idea if those proportions are exaggerated, close to the truth, or something else. But that’s the point. Strange point. I thought the point was that this woman experienced a lot of street harassment. I wasn’t aware that the demographics of the perpetrators was the point. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/57 "2014-11-01T20:32:05Z")
The film maker says - [QUOTE=Rob Bliss of Rob Bliss Creative] We got a fair amount of white guys, but for whatever reason, a lot of what they said was in passing or off camera. [/QUOTE] So it wasn’t just that the white guys just happened to be in bad camera position. It was also that what they did was less overt than following someone for five minutes or “nice ass” or the other kinds of catcalling that did make the cut. IOW it seems that Mr. Bliss found that more of the white reactions were of the order of “Good morning!” without pausing or trying to elicit a response from the woman. To be fair, it could have been done while leering or staring at her boobs or something like that. But it is somewhat harder to generate outrage with a video that shows a dozen investment bankers in expensive suits smiling at a pretty girl. So the creepy white skater boi was in, and the forty five year old who winked at her in passing was out. Not that being winked at constantly isn’t annoying (I suppose - my being-winked-at days are one with Nineveh and Tyre, if they ever were at all). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/58 "2014-11-01T20:41:39Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > So? What if you are correct? Then what? Do you think it changes the fact that the woman’s experience was not a good one because more of the people harassing her have darker skin? No, it doesn’t change it at all. But do you think that it would change anything if street harassment comes disproportionately from black or Hispanic men? If not, then why the objection to the edits? > [@](#): > > If it makes you feel better that you have one more detail not in common with these men, then…um…yay? I don’t need any reassurance. The detail that I don’t have in common with these men is that I don’t harass women in the street by catcalling them or following them or any of the things to which this advocacy group objects. I’ve been known to smile at a pretty girl in my day. But I don’t stalk them. > [@](#): > > Still made her day suck. That’s one of my points. I have no idea to what steps the film makers took to make this either look, or be, as sucky as possible. > [@](#): > > Still something you can step up and stop, as men talking to other men and telling them what’s cool and what isn’t (as they’re clearly the kind of men who won’t listen to women about it.) Some would call that “white knighting”. I suspect people might object if I follow random women around town lecturing everyone she passes. Besides, my momma raised me not to talk to strangers, male or female. > [@](#): > > Strange point. I thought the point was that this woman experienced a lot of street harassment. I wasn’t aware that the demographics of the perpetrators was the point. That’s the reason for the objections to editing out the white men. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/59 "2014-11-01T20:41:49Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > I’ve read this thread and the one in the BBQ Pit. I think it’s very telling of America culture that so any people are latching on to the race thing. I’m a Canadian man and when I heard about the video the first thing I thought of was getting razzed by a bunch of black kids while walking down the street in Manhattan. Is it relevant that they were black? I don’t know, but that’s what sprang to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/60 "2014-11-01T20:55:17Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > The fuck it doesn’t happen there, and middle class white guys don’t do that. They might not outright scream across the street when there are other people around to see and hear, but I’ve had plenty of middle class white guys make all kinds of gross comments and “accidentally” brush against my boobs or ass. Not in a “world city” either–I’ve never spent any time in one of those by myself. It’s happened in small towns and suburbs and small cities, always when I was by myself or with another woman, and almost always juuuuust subtle enough that other people couldn’t make out what he was saying or doing. Could you explain your comments with more detail? Do you walk sideways down the street? How does someone “accidentally” brush up against your ass or boobs? What things are said that only you can hear? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179.md?page=4)