# Thoughts on the viral 'New York catcalling' video? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 31, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179 "2014-10-31T23:08:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/161 "2014-11-03T02:23:28Z")
[What some middle-class white guys do when a woman walks into their field of vision](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/texas-police-officer-caught-on-video-go-ahead-call-the-cops-they-cant-un-rape-you/) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/162 "2014-11-03T02:41:15Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [What some middle-class white guys do when a woman walks into their field of vision](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/texas-police-officer-caught-on-video-go-ahead-call-the-cops-they-cant-un-rape-you/) Maybe in their culture, that’s a compliment. Did you ever think of that, monstro? Huh? Maybe you’re oppressing them by mischaracterizing their words. Also, maybe that woman would have enjoyed hearing those words. You don’t know. Maybe it would have made her day. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/163 "2014-11-03T02:47:47Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Ladies, please, are we really doing this again? > > Forget about “fighting ignorance.” We’re dealing with a bunch of clueless guys blowing text directly from their assholes about a subject they’ve never experienced and know literally nothing about. Fuck 'em. I know your post–especially the last sentence–wasn’t directed at anyone specifically (which is why you’re only getting a note, not a warning), but it did imply to be about posters in this topic, so don’t make a post like this again. * * * > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You have a serious problem, **Der Trihs**. You’re problem with women and misogyny is as bad as some SDMB posters’ problems with black people and racism. Let’s make sure a post like this is made in the Pit next time and not in a forum outside of it. * * * > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The men in that video couldn’t follow your recommendation short of committing suicide. They make women uncomfortable by _existing._ > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You conveniently ignored the rest of my post; they make her uncomfortable just by being alive. And killing themselves to make her happy would be a “terrible burden”. Okay, you have had a history of “extreme” statements and taking the “extreme” side…but I’d go as far to say that these two posts are so extreme, that they border on trolling. Do not make posts like this again, in this topic or these forums…because next time, if it’s me that sees it, is in a forum that I moderate, and is coming from you–I **will** warn you for it. So you may want to reconsider continuing posting to this thread at all if you can’t restrain yourself. Let’s everyone try to argue about the video/situation without insults or sniping…if anyone wants to do either of those things, make a Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/164 "2014-11-03T02:49:03Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [What some middle-class white guys do when a woman walks into their field of vision](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/texas-police-officer-caught-on-video-go-ahead-call-the-cops-they-cant-un-rape-you/) If you want a confession, I will give you one. I literally cannot help looking when an _attractive_ woman walks into the room and my definition of that is very strict (top 2%). My head turns before I even know what is happening. I don’t stare at breasts or anything like that because I am a face and leg man. I have to stop myself from doing it but it isn’t a conscious act (you yourself have argued against free will and true consciousness and this is probably a great example of it). If I am at a swimming pool, I am going to visually scan every attractive woman there at some point. There is very little I can do about it consciously unless I make it a point to keep my head down and buried in a book or something. However, I am also no threat to them whatsoever. I won’t even speak to them unless they initiate the conversation and I am certainly not secretly plotting on how best to rape them. Men are just unusually visual and simple creatures in many way. It is simple stimulus –\> response. I would love to see a good video on that phenomenon rather than this bullshit one. I might be able to learn some strategies for helping other people feel less uncomfortable in settings that most people encounter rather than intentionally engineered and artificial ones like this one. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/165 "2014-11-03T06:08:37Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I lived in Cameroon, where a similar thing happens, and you can bet your buppy it annoys the hell out of the women there and when they get together, they complain about it. “Averting your gaze and not acknowledging” something is what you do when something is bothering you but there isn’t much you can do about it. > > I would guess she finally chewed out the homeless guy because she knew he was likely to back down rather than escalate the situation or assault her. > > Seriously, do you not have any empathy at all? Can you not imagine how annoying it must be to have five assholes making kissy noises at you while you are just going about your business? Yes I do have empathy, yes I do find it annoying as hell, and I guess this goes without saying but of course I don’t do this to women, and yes I find it annoying just listening to it. You’re probably right that she thought she could vent without repercussions , and I was absolutely not trying to say all women or even she liked harassment if it read like that. I just classified all those guy’s kissy noises as say harassment points or something in video game terms, it struck me how vociferously the homeless guy was responded to. And I am talking about the actual words she used to rant at him, which made it clear his soot was especially offensive due to who he was. It never before occurred to me women were judging harassment by the source, instead of just “male harassment”. If if t seemed like I was saying she should have just taken it, no that was not what I was saying. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/166 "2014-11-03T06:10:45Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > CNN has a [conversation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HI4DC18wCg) between comedian Amanda Seales and author Steven Santagati on the topic that–sadly–is mirroring a lot of what we’re seeing here on the Dope. Can’t wait for a chorus of guys to tell us what a voice of reason the dude is. The headline to the _Huffington Post_ reaction to that video: [CNN Just Aired The Most Insane Reaction To The Catcalling Viral Video](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/02/cnn-catcalling-video-steve-santagati_n_6090534.html) > [@](#): > > The video, spearheaded by anti-street harassment organization Hollaback, received heaps of praise, but also ruffled some feathers. One of those feathers apparently belonged to Steve Santagati, an author and self-proclaimed dating expert who appeared on Whitfield’s show to deliver a baffling rant against the video that was at best tone-deaf and uninformed and at worst unabashedly misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/167 "2014-11-03T07:33:17Z")
> [@MrLee](#): > > […] I defer to the judgement of those here… > > Any thoughts? Well, **MrLee** , having deferred to the judgement of those here and asked if they had any thoughts about this video, how are you doing? Hangin’ in there? Feeling popular? I noticed you haven’t posted since post #3. The odd thing is, nearly every one in this thread just got through doing _the exact same thing_ in the Pit thread I directed you to in the first response to your OP. Fascinating, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/168 "2014-11-03T07:57:01Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Just about EVERYONE is on the internet nowdays. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No; a [substantial portion](http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/26/4660008/pew-study-finds-30-percent-americans-have-no-home-broadband) of the population is not. Especially lower class people, like the ones being bashed here. You quoted the stats for broadband connection. The article goes on to note the connection by smartphone, which evens out the connectivity across racial lines. > [@](#): > > factoring in smartphone use adds another layer to the results. If you consider smartphone access to count as home broadband, the number of unconnected Americans drops significantly: about 10 percent of respondents said they had a smartphone but no internet connection at home. Smartphones also go a long way towards erasing a marked racial divide. White Americans are noticeably more likely than black or Hispanic ones to have home broadband, but when you add smartphones to the mix, those numbers even out. ETA: the article also notes that 98% of Americans have access to internet connection. Some choose not to access it. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/169 "2014-11-03T09:36:39Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > If you want a confession, I will give you one. I literally cannot help looking when an _attractive_ woman walks into the room … However, I am also no threat to them whatsoever. I won’t even speak to them unless they initiate the conversation and I am certainly not secretly plotting on how best to rape them. Men are just unusually visual and simple creatures in many way. It is simple stimulus –\> response. This is a rather shabbily built strawman. No one has criticized men for looking at attractive women. I mean, I assume you’re glancing and not _staring_, because that would be creepy and awful, but everyone looks at people they’re attracted to, and no one (certainly not the post you were responding to) has criticized men for this. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > People misstate their experiences all the time … Women are not immune to that effect any more than anyone else. Just because large numbers of them claim something doesn’t mean that it is actually true. Well then please point me to all the women saying “Gee, that’s not my experience at all. It’s almost never happened that strange men say inappropriate things to me as I pass by.” I’m all for an appreciation of rigorous data and being skeptical of eye-witness accounts, but it’s insane to hold something to the standard that’s prevalent in these threads. When the response from here and elsewhere of people with some actual experience of a phenomenon is overwhelmingly one-sided, for someone who necessarily knows nothing about it to dismiss it out of hand is, intellectually and probabilistically, stupid. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/170 "2014-11-03T12:12:06Z")
Again, why does this suggestion – that men who catcall should stop catcalling because it makes some women feel uncomfortable – get such strong opposition? It’s not the biggest problem in the world, and this solution doesn’t cost anyone anything. Why not just say “okay, I won’t catcall any more [if you do it sometimes], and if I see someone I know do it, I’ll try and suggest that they not do that any more”? ---
**Author:** ![MrLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f8ce5/32.png) [@MrLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrLee)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/171 "2014-11-03T12:12:49Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Well, **MrLee** , having deferred to the judgement of those here and asked if they had any thoughts about this video, how are you doing? Hangin’ in there? Feeling popular? I noticed you haven’t posted since post #3. > > The odd thing is, nearly every one in this thread just got through doing _the exact same thing_ in the Pit thread I directed you to in the first response to your OP. Fascinating, isn’t it? Hey - glad you asked! I’m one of those who tends to ask questions in the OP then just sit back and read the responses (if everyone here were like me, this would be a very dull place indeed.) I’m not sure if that’s indicative of laziness, lack of assertiveness, or something else…I rarely have my mind completely made up about anything, so it is genuinely instructive and informative to read such impassioned arguments coming from so many different viewpoints. (That’s not me being sarcastic - it really is!) As you say, though, a lot of this seems to have been recycled from the other thread… ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/172 "2014-11-03T12:50:19Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Yes I do have empathy, yes I do find it annoying as hell, and I guess this goes without saying but of course I don’t do this to women, and yes I find it annoying just listening to it. > > You’re probably right that she thought she could vent without repercussions , and I was absolutely not trying to say all women or even she liked harassment if it read like that. I just classified all those guy’s kissy noises as say harassment points or something in video game terms, it struck me how vociferously the homeless guy was responded to. > > And I am talking about the actual words she used to rant at him, which made it clear his soot was especially offensive due to who he was. It never before occurred to me women were judging harassment by the source, instead of just “male harassment”. > > If if t seemed like I was saying she should have just taken it, no that was not what I was saying. I think maybe status does come into it. She might feel that she has to put up with it from the other men because they are socially more important than her, but she doesn’t have to take it from a homeless guy. But he probably cops all her annoyance at the other guys as well, which she couldn’t express to them. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/173 "2014-11-03T15:10:36Z")
I just want to add that it takes a ton of willpower to NOT catcall. Thing is guys notice attractive females but we’ve been conditioned to not say anything because its rude, degrading, bad taste, sexist, etc… Heck its hard to train oneself to not look at cleavage when its hanging our right in front of you. As one gets more mature this gets easier but I can see persons whom could care less about what society thinks, or they just get their jollys getting a rise out of females, that would be pretty nasty about this. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/174 "2014-11-03T17:10:09Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I just want to add that it takes a ton of willpower to NOT catcall. LOL, are you being serious? How is it hard to keep your mouth shut? Just be quiet. Easiest thing in the world. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/175 "2014-11-03T17:12:58Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I just want to add that it takes a ton of willpower to NOT catcall. Are you serious? > [@](#): > > Thing is guys notice attractive females but we’ve been conditioned to not say anything because its rude, degrading, bad taste, sexist, etc… Are you saying this sort of “conditioning” is a bad thing? > [@](#): > > As one gets more mature this gets easier but I can see persons whom could care less about what society thinks, or they just get their jollys getting a rise out of females, that would be pretty nasty about this. Undoubtedly jerks will continue to be jerks. But among the catcallers some are just ignorant and have no idea that it makes some women feel uncomfortable. Most people actively don’t want to engage in behavior that makes someone uncomfortable, especially when this behavior offers zero (or virtually zero) benefit to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/176 "2014-11-04T07:34:29Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > LOL, are you being serious? How is it hard to keep your mouth shut? Just be quiet. Easiest thing in the world. Your not a guy are you? Yes, believe it or not it can take alot of willpower not to do something stupid. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/177 "2014-11-04T09:34:17Z")
I’m a guy, and I have zero interest in catcalling or any such behavior. I admit I simply don’t understand the impulse, which means I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for men who do these things. My gut reaction is simply, “Just keep your mouth shut, dumbass; it’s not hard.” Maybe it is hard for some guys, I don’t know. It’s still idiotic and callous. I _do_ have to stop myself from staring. I wouldn’t exactly call it difficult, but given my druthers – if I were invisible, say – I’d probably spend my whole subway ride with my headphones in, absent-mindedly staring at the 2-3 most attractive women in my vicinity. Of course, since I’m _not_ invisible, I restrict myself to occasional furtive glances, and if a woman notices a glance I make it a point not to look back. Hopefully this is not creepy behavior, because I don’t think I have it in me not to look _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/178 "2014-11-04T10:37:25Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Your not a guy are you? > > Yes, believe it or not it can take alot of willpower not to do something stupid. I’m a guy and straight, too. It’s very easy to not catcall. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/179 "2014-11-04T12:14:36Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Your not a guy are you? > > Yes, believe it or not it can take alot of willpower not to do something stupid. Just because **Urbanredneck** may have an impulse control disorder does not mean that men in general do. There’s medication you can take to help with all that missing willpower. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179/180 "2014-11-04T16:58:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m a guy and straight, too. It’s very easy to not catcall. Yeah, same here. Straight male, neither catcall nor feel the slightest urge to. I _do_, however, check out attractive women. I very often turn my head for a better view if they pass me on the street, for example. Or if I’m on a bus or train, reading a book, and catch a blonde wave of hair in my peripheral vision, I always (always!) look up to see what’s what. I’m guessing this has probably bothered people, at times… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-on-the-viral-new-york-catcalling-video/703179.md?page=10)