# Thoughts upon finishing the Harry Potter books (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 21, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149 "2008-12-21T03:37:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/21 "2008-12-29T23:32:50Z")
> [@Soapbox\_Monkey](#): > > The scoring system in Quiddich. What’s the point in the non-seekers even playing? Well, it is possible to find the snitch but still lose the game. I cite the case of Ireland v. Bulgaria. **Knead** Another Hufflepuff ---
**Author:** ![Leiko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Leiko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leiko)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/22 "2008-12-30T01:12:26Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > 1. I still can’t get over the whole existence of Slytherin house. The whole point of it seems to be a breeding ground for evil wizards. And I don’t understand why it was allowed to continue after the Slytherins refused to take sides against Voldemort at the end. Ambition is not an inherently evil trait. The house was founded by the least tolerant of the Founders, yes, and it has produced, to our knowledge, a greater share of villainous characters, but shunting the ambitious children in with the clever and wise, the diligent and loyal, or the brave and daring wouldn’t cut down on their immoral intentions. Also, you try dismantling a thousand-year-old tradition. Even the most popular of Headmasters would face a pretty large protest if they announced the end of one of the Houses, and it would screw up the Quidditch schedule. > [@Soapbox\_Monkey](#): > > The scoring system in Quiddich. What’s the point in the non-seekers even playing? Originally, there was no Seeker. The game started with just the Chasers and the Keeper, then was influenced by a Scottish game (Creaothceann- cauldron strapped to your head, you try to catch falling boulders) and an English children’s game (Shuntbumps, primitive broom jousting) to include a more violent element, and the Beater position came about. Then, in the 1200s, a man released a very rare, very fast bird, the Golden Snidget, at a game, and offered a reward of 150 pounds to the player that caught it. This became a tradition, and severely threatened the species, so a wizard developed the Golden Snitch, with point value to reflect the original cash prize. As cited by **KneadToKnow** , the team that catches the Snitch isn’t always the team that wins- Krum got the Snitch but Ireland beat Bulgaria soundly. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/23 "2008-12-30T02:02:07Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Rowling had said all along that she not only knew how the series would end, but had actually written the very end quite early on. When I read the epilogue, I believed it. I don’t object to the basic idea of the series ending with a happily-ever-after Harry seeing his own kids off to Hogwarts, but I don’t think another revision or two would have hurt. After seven books she could do better than that. My issue is … Ron and Hermione wind up together? Come on. It should have been Harry and Hermione. The most powerful wizard and the most powerful witch of their generation and they _didn’t_ get together? ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/24 "2008-12-30T02:13:52Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > My issue is … Ron and Hermione wind up together? Come on. It should have been Harry and Hermione. The most powerful wizard and the most powerful witch of their generation and they _didn’t_ get together? Wha? Harry and Hermione have no romantic chemistry together. At all. Whatsoever. And Ron and Hermione have been sparking ever since they met, practically (because bickering and quarrelling _always_ equals true love, vis. most romantic comedies). Seriously, it feels like Ron and Hermione ending up together was telegraphed from the very first book. Now, I admit I thought Harry and Luna would have been sweet, but I like the evolution of Ginny’s character, so. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/25 "2008-12-30T02:29:08Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > My issue is … Ron and Hermione wind up together? Come on. It should have been Harry and Hermione. The most powerful wizard and the most powerful witch of their generation and they _didn’t_ get together? I don’t think you’ve got Hermione pegged right. She’s smart, and definitely gifted, but I think Rowling goes out of her way to show that pound for pound, Ginny’s far and away the more _powerful_ witch. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/26 "2008-12-30T02:31:35Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I don’t think you’ve got Hermione pegged right. She’s smart, and definitely gifted, but I think Rowling goes out of her way to show that pound for pound, Ginny’s far and away the more _powerful_ witch. I totally agree. Hermione was noted as the cleverest witch of her age, not the most powerful. Her magic is likely more versitile, but when it comes down to sheer force…Ginny has that in spades. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/27 "2008-12-30T03:54:21Z")
I liked the end because it is The End. No Voldemort - A New Beginning crap (I really really hope). I really like how Snape was redeemed but still himself. The high-school sweetheart stuff was sappy but expected. I wish she’d been able to do more with Ron’s “my mum can make good food out of nothing” and Hermione giving him an education. Call me a nerd but I like to see a world’s tech underpinnings. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/28 "2008-12-30T04:34:05Z")
> [@Soapbox\_Monkey](#): > > Voldemort’s demise. After all this build up about Harry’s destiny, and the inevitable showdown, Voldemort kills himself. Accidentally. AGAIN. All because he didn’t read the special instructions on the Super Wand.:rolleyes: \*The Inferior Man works through Power. The Superior Man does not act thus. To continue is dangerous. A goat butts against a hedge And gets its horns entangled. I Ching\*, Hexagram 34 The Power of the Great, Nine in the third place Which changes the hexagram to 54 The Marrying Maiden, which is about being in a position where others control your destiny. Pretty much means that the inferior (common, lesser, petty) person uses his power at every opportunity, like the old “when all you have is a hammer” axium. But the Superior (wise, greater, etc) person knows the limits of the use of power and force. Horns being the symbol of the projection and use of power against others, it means we get entangled in situations that hinder us when we over-rely on using that force. Thus others are able to control us, or we lose control over ourselves, and ultimately compromise our self-esteem. What I mean here is that Voldemort is the ultimate Inferior Man. He sees POWER as the be-all, end-all of Wizarding. He doesn’t love, he doesn’t have friends, he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about anyone or anything beyond how he can use it for his own ends. He’s so convinced of his own power, his own strength, and thus his own superiority, that it never occurs to him that the things he doesn’t value - because they don’t give HIM more power - might actually be stronger than him, might actually prove his undoing. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/29 "2008-12-30T05:09:13Z")
Sorry about lumping Luna in the wrong house, but I think my point got across… Speaking of the little space case, I was hoping at the end her and Neville would end up together. Their personalities compliment each other perfectly… Neville will have the defeatist lack-of-confidence attitude towards things that he does, and will need reassurance that isn’t just someone talking down to him. Luna would be so out-of-it that she would just treat Neville well, and wouldn’t harp on the things he was doing well or badly. Plus I like both the characters so I think they would end up together. To add to the fact that Ginny is the more powerful witch as opposed to the “better” one reminds me of what I wanted to happen at the end of the series. I really wanted Voldy to kill Harry and then have Ginny go apeshit and kick his ass for her man (It’s something I didn’t think was totally out of the realm of possibility too) ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/30 "2008-12-30T05:36:44Z")
The part of the series that I loved the most was the redemption of Snape. He was my favorite character even when we were led to believe that he was an evil traitor. Despite the books being a bit corny, it brought tears to my eyes to learn of his history and his fate. I also like how, in the end, we discover that Dumbledore is flawed, made mistakes of passion and judgment. He is made more human and less demi-god-like, which I appreciate. I do wish Rowling had found a way to reveal that he was gay in the books rather than afterwards, since there was ample opportunity to do it in the context of the novels. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/31 "2008-12-30T07:42:51Z")
So does anyone else think that Harry Potter should be done by the cast of Skins? Harry - Tony Hermione - Michelle Ron - Sid Luna - Cassie Weasley twins - Chris Ginnie - Effie Neville - Anwar ? Draco - Maxxie ? - Sketch, Jal Mostly for appearance, but also for role and personality. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/32 "2008-12-30T08:55:24Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > So does anyone else think that Harry Potter should be done by the cast of Skins? > > Harry - Tony > Hermione - Michelle > Ron - Sid > Luna - Cassie > Weasley twins - Chris > Ginnie - Effie > Neville - Anwar ? > Draco - Maxxie > ? - Sketch, Jal > > Mostly for appearance, but also for role and personality. You get Skins in the US?!? I like what you’ve done with the cast there, maybe they could do a one-off Skins-goes-to-Hogwarts special. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jennyrosity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@Jennyrosity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennyrosity)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/33 "2008-12-30T12:19:32Z")
I agree with a lot of the comments here, but I still think there were some wonderful moments in the last book, which were surprisingly subtle for a childrens story. Harry whispering “I am about to die” to the snitch brought tears to my eyes - he was just so mature and accepting of his fate. No 17 year old should have to do what he did and face what he was about to face - it just brought home how much what he’d been through had aged him and how bloody unfair it was. I liked that Fred’s death was described so quickly, and that Lupin and Tonks died “off-screen”, as it were, because that’s exactly how it would happen in a battle. Your friend, you brother dies right beside you and you see it and it devastates you, but you don’t have time to stop and take it in because the battle’s raging all around you and you just have to keep fighting. Or you lose sight of someone you love, and you just have to hope that they’re ok, that they’re just missing not killed - and then you see their body brought back… I also liked that Draco wasn’t either completely redeemed or punished. It’s more realistic, and gives a strong message to kids that life’s not always fair, and it’s not usually as simple as good/evil. One of the few things I had a real problem with was Molly Weasley killing Bellatrix Lestrange. I loved the “Not my daughter, you bitch!” bit as much as anyway, but I did think that Neville, who had proved himself to be a worthy soldier and a true, brave Griffindor, should have had the chance to avenge his parents. I’m guessing Rowling did it that way because she didn’t want Neville, who was a completely “good” character in a way that, for example, Harry or even Ron wasn’t, to have blood on his hands, but given that she hadn’t shied away from such difficult issues with other characters, I think it’s a shame he didn’t finish her off himself, and show that sometimes good people have to things which may not be _good_, but are _right._ ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/34 "2008-12-30T15:14:33Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Well, it is possible to find the snitch but still lose the game. I cite the case of Ireland v. Bulgaria. Yeah, and that little episode made no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/35 "2008-12-30T15:17:53Z")
Rowling spent 6 books developing intense rivalries between Harry & Malfoy and Harry & Snape. Then, in the 7th book, she offers almost no resolution to either conflict. What closure she did offer seemed tacked on at the last minute. Though I liked aspects of the final book, I really don’t think it is going to age very well. I go back and forth, though. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/36 "2008-12-30T15:34:53Z")
To add to what Jenny said: There was a small, almost throwaway one liner in the book that hit me more than anything in the entire series. It was when Harry and Hermoine were hiding with the Goblin from Gringotts. And after talking with him and trying to convince him what they needed to do the Goblin looks to the kids and says “So young to be fighting so many”. For some reason that touched me about the whole idea of the series ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/37 "2008-12-30T15:50:46Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Rowling spent 6 books developing intense rivalries between Harry & Malfoy and Harry & Snape. Then, in the 7th book, she offers almost no resolution to either conflict. What closure she did offer seemed tacked on at the last minute. > > Though I liked aspects of the final book, I really don’t think it is going to age very well. I go back and forth, though. I rather liked how she left Harry and Draco. Some things just don’t resolve neatly. They still have to inhabit the same world, still travel in roughly the same circles, but they will never like each other. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/38 "2008-12-30T16:02:03Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I rather liked how she left Harry and Draco. Some things just don’t resolve neatly. They still have to inhabit the same world, still travel in roughly the same circles, but they will never like each other. Just like Bill and Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/39 "2008-12-30T16:13:57Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I rather liked how she left Harry and Draco. Some things just don’t resolve neatly. They still have to inhabit the same world, still travel in roughly the same circles, but they will never like each other. I think she put way too much effort into developing the conflict to abandon it the way she did. Yes, that’s how things sometimes work out. In a story about wizards and monsters and evil, she picked a terrible time to go all realistic on her audience. By walking away from the situation, she rendered all the build-up pointless. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149/40 "2008-12-30T16:26:08Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I think she put way too much effort into developing the conflict to abandon it the way she did… > > By walking away from the situation, she rendered all the build-up pointless. She’d been painting Malfoy as a coward for years before that and as a mama’s boy since the beginning of _Half-Blood Prince_. How he turned out seemed wholly in character to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thoughts-upon-finishing-the-harry-potter-books-open-spoilers/478149.md?page=3)