# {Thread about Israel & Palestine launched from} Majority Leader Schumer Delivers Major Address On Antisemitism On The Senate Floor **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [December 1, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929 "2023-12-01T00:33:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/61 "2023-12-01T20:54:33Z")
Like the US and other more democratic countries. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/62 "2023-12-01T20:57:34Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > Like the US and other more democratic countries So are all countries without a separation of state and church inherently oppressive? I await your condemnation of [every country listed here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion) with bated breath; altenatively I await your explanation of why on the Jew is inherently oppressive. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/63 "2023-12-01T21:05:34Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > Like the US and other more democratic countries. So the majority Muslim non-democracies in the Middle East that oppress women, LGBT, foreign workers, and non Muslims are all a-ok with you? Nothing to see here, move along? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/64 "2023-12-01T21:08:24Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > A one state Palestine wouldn’t negate the Israelis’ or Palestinians’ rights in Palestine according to international resolutions and accords. Israel, according to you, is currently oppressing Palestinians despite the existence of those international resolutions and accords. Hamas carried out the October 7th attacks, which violated many international resolutions and accords. How can you be so certain that they would be restrained by those international resolutions and accords if they controlled a single Palestinian state in the territory that currently makes up Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/65 "2023-12-01T21:12:25Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > The argument is a straw man. It’s not a straw man at all. You’ve singled out the idea that a Jewish state is necessarily oppressive. You’ve been given opportunities to clarify whether you have a problem with any state religion and have refused to to do, avoiding the uncomfortable question and doubling down. A straw man would be arguing against a point you never made. That’s not what’s happening. Your arguments are not just attacking Israel, they’re attacking the concept of a Jewish state of any kind, and that’s one reason why they are being poorly received. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/66 "2023-12-01T21:13:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > How can you be so certain that they would be restrained by those international resolutions and accords if they controlled a single Palestinian state in the territory that currently makes up Israel? It would seem that if the worst should happen and the new Palestinian state begins exterminating the Jews within its borders, InfraBlue will favor the United Nations taking decisive action like this: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/aE_sYNVgS-M/maxresdefault.jpg "Willy Wonka - Stop, Don't, Come Back (Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE_sYNVgS-M) ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/67 "2023-12-01T21:15:06Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > > [@InfraBlue](#): > > > > > > How is that a double standard? > > > > In what way is the Jewish state of Israel oppressive while the Christian state of England is not? > > You still haven’t answered this question England doesn’t contain an entire people in open air prisons and bantustans; Israel does. > [@Babale](#): > > you’re hitting all 3 D’s so perfectly that your motivation is crystal clear. No I’m not, and my motivation is anything but clear to _you_ You don’t need a state of your own and enabling; you need counseling. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/68 "2023-12-01T21:24:48Z")
Moderating: > [@InfraBlue](#): > > you need counseling. This is a personal attack and is totally inappropriate for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/69 "2023-12-01T21:27:20Z")
Oops, i didn’t realize this was in P&E. I’m going to temporarily closed this thread until a p&e mod can decide what should have been done. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/70 "2023-12-01T21:27:26Z")
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**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/71 "2023-12-01T22:46:04Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > you need counseling. Indeed, that is worthy of a warning. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/72 "2023-12-01T22:46:15Z")
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**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/73 "2023-12-02T00:54:33Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > England doesn’t contain an entire people in open air prisons and bantustans; Israel does. If the partition plan was agreed to than neither would Israel. If a two state solution is implemented tomorrow, then neither would Israel. (I object to these characterizations of the current state of Israel/the Palestinians, but that’s immaterial here). > [@InfraBlue](#): > > You don’t need a state of your own History proves otherwise. Maybe you find the status quo faced by Jews from from the death of Hyracnus II until 1948 acceptable; I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/74 "2023-12-02T01:18:45Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Maybe you find the status quo faced by Jews from from the death of Hyracnus II until 1948 acceptable; I don’t. My daughter is at Chabad tonight for Shabbat dinner. There were two police cars parked in front when she got there, I’m sure they are just needed for parking enforcement. Nope, no fears of Jew hate in Montreal where [Jewish schools have been shot at](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-jewish-school-gunfire-1.7026640) and a [Jewish community centre firebombed](https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/jewish-community-centre-in-c-d-n-n-d-g-targeted-by-firebomb). ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/75 "2023-12-02T02:26:49Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > Other opinions hold that the present situation, the 10/7 attack, is only surpassed by the Holocaust. The situation portends to only get worse. Oh, well if nebulous other opinions by unspecified personages are held, that’s good enough for me. The portents are clearly there that things are currently so bad that they are surpassed only by the Holocaust and are going to get worse. Forget what history has to say about it, others hold opinions. In case you missed it: this is as weak of an argument as ‘some people say,’ it’s literally the same thing with different verbiage. > [@InfraBlue](#): > > The People of Palestine should become citizens of one democratic, egalitarian, and pluralistic state in all of Palestine, whatever it would be called. You do have a solution as to how this will magically come to be, and all ethnic hatreds will be put aside that involves more than repeating the mantra “democratic, egalitarian, and pluralistic,” right? If all that you’ve got is using the words “portends” and “democratic, egalitarian, and pluralistic” repeatedly rather than anything of substance, I’m done here. Oh, and for the record I’m disgusted by the level of disregard for civilian life that’s been demonstrated by the Israeli government over the past month. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/76 "2023-12-02T06:36:13Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@InfraBlue](#): > > > > England doesn’t contain an entire people in open air prisons and bantustans; Israel does. > > If the partition plan was agreed to than neither would Israel. If a two state solution is implemented tomorrow, then neither would Israel You just explained the Zionists’ rationalizations for containing the Palestinians in open air prisons and bantustans, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/77 "2023-12-02T06:44:04Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > > [@InfraBlue](#): > > > > Other opinions hold that the present situation, the 10/7 attack, is only surpassed by the Holocaust. The situation portends to only get worse. > > Oh, well if nebulous other opinions by unspecified personages are held, that’s good enough for me. The portents are clearly there that things are currently so bad that they are surpassed only by the Holocaust and are going to get worse. Forget what history has to say about it, others hold opinions. In case you missed it: this is as weak of an argument as ‘some people say,’ it’s literally the same thing with different verbiage. You _say_ whatever you have to say about history and go on to say “some people say” is a weak argument. You just undermined whatever you have to say. Excellent. Here are some things some people say. > **[Deadliest day for Jews since the Holocaust spurs a crisis of confidence in...](https://theconversation.com/deadliest-day-for-jews-since-the-holocaust-spurs-a-crisis-of-confidence-in-the-idea-of-israel-and-its-possible-renewal-215507)** > > Israel’s foundational social contract – that the government would keep Israelis safe – was severed with the deadly attacks by Hamas on Oct. 7, 2023. [https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/us/shoah-foundation-records-october-7-testimonies/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/us/shoah-foundation-records-october-7-testimonies/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/78 "2023-12-02T06:50:13Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > > [@InfraBlue](#): > > > > The People of Palestine should become citizens of one democratic, egalitarian, and pluralistic state in all of Palestine, whatever it would be called. > > You do have a solution as to how this will magically come to be, and all ethnic hatreds will be put aside that involves more than repeating the mantra “democratic, egalitarian, and pluralistic,” right? The implementation of a democratic, egalitarian, and pluralistic state is substantial, and all that is needed to resolve the conflict in Palestine. > [@Dissonance](#): > > If all that you’ve got is using the words “portends” and “democratic, egalitarian, and pluralistic” repeatedly rather than anything of substance, I’m done here. Bye-bye. ---
**Author:** ![InfraBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infrablue/32/6366_2.png) [@InfraBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InfraBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/79 "2023-12-02T06:54:37Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@InfraBlue](#): > > > > You don’t need a state of your own > > History proves otherwise. Maybe you find the status quo faced by Jews from from the death of Hyracnus II until 1948 acceptable; I don’t. The status quo faced by Jews from the death of Hyracnus II until 1948 doesn’t justify the Zionists’ oppression of the Palestinian people. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2023, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929/80 "2023-12-02T07:28:24Z")
> [@InfraBlue](#): > > You _say_ whatever you have to say about history and go on to say “some people say” is a weak argument. You just undermined whatever you have to say. Excellent. No, I know and cite sources of the actual history of the conflict, I don’t just _say_ whatever I have to say about history. That you fail to either know the history of the region or actually read anything I cite is your problem, not mine. That you imagine that this undermines whatever I have to say demonstrates that you don’t know how debating, or for that matter conversations work. > [@InfraBlue](#): > > The implementation of a democratic, egalitarian, and pluralistic state is substantial, and all that is needed to resolve the conflict in Palestine. Hate to break it to you for what, the third time? But these words don’t possess magic powers to make things so. Adding the words “is substantial, and is all that is needed to resolve the conflict in Palestine” isn’t providing a solution, explaining how this will make ethnic hatred miracle themselves out of existence, doing jack shit to address the legitimate security concerns of both parties, or explain how this won’t instantly collapse back into the situation as it now stands. That’s because repeating the mantra “democratic, egalitarian, and pluralistic state” doesn’t mean anything when you have provided no actual means of getting there, much less sustaining such a thing when it’s not what either party wants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-about-israel-palestine-launched-from-majority-leader-schumer-delivers-major-address-on-antisemitism-on-the-senate-floor/993929.md?page=5)