# Thread clutter about newspaper paywalls **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 19, 2024, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046 "2024-06-19T11:41:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/1 "2024-06-19T11:41:22Z")
Latest example: > [@One million dollars needed for retirement?!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/314): > > Interesting article today on Washington Post […]: > > [Multigenerational homes are having a moment. You may want to join them. - The Washington Post](https://wapo.st/3VBhi8G) A common sequence: 1. Link posted 2. “I can’t read that” (not true in this case) 3. “Here’s a gift link” 4. “It makes me log in” 2–4 are off-topic clutter that add nothing. Everyone who can muster a google search\* can read that wapo article without a subscription or gift link, because, for whatever reason, wapo has decided to make all their articles readable. Not all news or journal sites have. Posts that do nothing more than announce an unwillingness or inability to participate should be discouraged and moderated as threadshitting or hijacks. \*Per mod decree, the few clicks involved shall not be revealed on these boards. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/2 "2024-06-19T12:06:41Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > “I can’t read that” (not true in this case) Most of the time, this is a response to the article being behind a paywall. The article might not be paywalled in this particular case, but that’s a rare exception. I don’t think that this is a valid complaint. > [@Ruken](#): > > “It makes me log in” Some people don’t want to create an account someplace just to read one article. Again, I don’t think that this is a valid complaint. If you want to discuss an article, other folks should be able to read that article without being forced to register for a site or pay for access. > [@Ruken](#): > > \*Per mod decree, the few clicks involved shall not be revealed on these boards. Bypassing paywalls is actually illegal. If it annoys you that everyone doesn’t know how to illegally bypass paywalls, tough noogies. We are never going to make it a requirement that everyone should be able to bypass a paywall just to read a linked article. This isn’t just per mod decree. Posting information about bypassing paywalls is encouraging an illegal act, which very clearly violates the Terms of Service for the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/3 "2024-06-19T12:23:27Z")
Also note that the Straight Dope has historically been owned by publications of various sorts (I think our current owner is a radio station, but we’re still owned through a publication they own), and so we’re especially vigilant about laws protecting publications. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/4 "2024-06-19T12:58:47Z")
IMO the OP is utterly without merit. Conversely, IMO we should be modding people who carelessly post cites that are not fully publicly available without registration. Just as we mod posts like: > What do you think of this YouTube vid? > [Link to vid] They both represent careless laziness on the part of the poster who evidently cares more for the act of typing than actually doing anything useful to / for their audience. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/5 "2024-06-19T13:27:57Z")
I agree entirely, but based on the poll in your previous thread on this matter, I don’t think this idea is going to fly here. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/6 "2024-06-19T14:00:25Z")
@Lord_Feldon: Are you addressing the OP or the post just above yours? As written, we (or at least I) can’t tell. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/7 "2024-06-19T14:14:21Z")
The OP. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/8 "2024-06-19T16:18:00Z")
Very often, when people post links to articles, the sources of those articles are sites or media outlets that the poster reads regularly, and that often means they have an account or subscription there. So they may not even realize or think about whether other people, who don’t have an account, will be able to access those articles. Thus, “I can’t read that” or similar complaints are valid and provide useful information. So, I agree with @engineer_comp_geek and not with the OP. I wouldn’t want to make it an absolute rule, but it’s a “best practice” that, if you’re going to post a link on this board, it should be to something that everyone can access, without creating an account or paying money or, ideally, even turning off an ad-blocker. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/9 "2024-06-19T16:33:48Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Bypassing paywalls is actually illegal. I agree with your commentary and opinions. I’m writing in the best tradition of the Dope to ask if this part is actually true? As in, a crime. That would surprise me, but I suppose it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/10 "2024-06-19T16:34:57Z")
> **[Anti-circumvention | Circumvention of Access Controls](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention#Circumvention_of_Access_Controls)** > > Section 103 (17 U.S.C Sec. 1201(a)(1)) of the DMCA states: A paywall is, legally, a “technological measure” implementing an access-control mechanisn limiting access to a protected work (copyrighted web article), and the DMCA literally criminalizes circumvention. > No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/11 "2024-06-19T19:24:32Z")
Many sites will let you read an article for a few seconds, then throw a popup over the page asking you to subscribe. I find that if you stop the page loading before it is finished (hit the X where the refresh button usually is), that keeps the popup from popping up, and you can read the article. Is this breaking the law? If that is a “paywall,” ISTM to be about ankle-height, IOW not much of a wall. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/12 "2024-06-19T19:31:16Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I find that if you stop the page loading before it is finished (hit the X where the refresh button usually is), that keeps the popup from popping up, and you can read the article. > > Is this breaking the law? Is deleting my cookies so I’m reset for my five free articles breaking the law? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/13 "2024-06-19T19:35:31Z")
Right. Or using an incognito tab? > [@gnoitall](#): > > No person shall circumvent a technological measure that **effectively** controls access to a work protected under this title. Emphasis mine. Perhaps in the digital age the burden is on copyright holder to use technological measures that are effective, and not so easily overcome as the two we’ve just mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/14 "2024-06-19T19:45:30Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Conversely, IMO we should be modding people who carelessly post cites that are not fully publicly available without registration. I strongly disagree with this proposed policy for the reasons elucidated by @Thudlow_Boink. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Very often, when people post links to articles, the sources of those articles are sites or media outlets that the poster reads regularly, and that often means they have an account or subscription there. So they may not even realize or think about whether other people, who don’t have an account, will be able to access those articles. Thus, “I can’t read that” or similar complaints are valid and provide useful information. Not to mention the fact that news sites are constantly changing their policies and sometimes allow people to read articles without limit, or allow people to read a few articles, or paywall all articles. I have a subscription to the _New York Times_ and _Washington Post_. I have no idea what their current policy is on allowing non-subscribers to read articles. However, if I post a link and people tell me they can’t read it, that is indeed useful information. In any event, I usually try to post a gift link to hopefully avoid the issue. But again, I have no idea if utilizing a gift link makes people create an account. But at that point, I think I have done all I can. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/15 "2024-06-19T19:59:42Z")
That’s a fine discussion for another thread. But irrelevant for this one. TPTB have articulated a position. The “why” is ultimately speculative , and they owe you no explanation. Copyright circumvention is forbidden discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/16 "2024-06-19T20:14:25Z")
If someone posts an article I can’t read without creating an account and/or paying a subscription then I will make it known. It’s less of a threadshit than posting an article that people can’t read and then proceeding as if people can read it. If you have a habit of doing that and get upset when people object, get over yourself. Now, I also often try to find an alternative source with the same info like AP or Reuters, and then post that for people to read as an alternative. And often, I’ll find that the paywalled article is actually just reprinting an article that originated from one of those sources in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/17 "2024-06-19T20:18:21Z")
P.S. I’m not sure what their current policy is, but the _New York Times_ used to allow a certain number of free articles. I kept running into that limit because of links here on the SDMB, which is what induced me to finally get a subscription in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/18 "2024-06-19T20:19:03Z")
From time to time I will post an article from my local paper’s website. I have a paid subscription to my paper, so there’s never a paywall for me. There may or may not be a paywall for a visitor to the site, but unless someone tells me that particular article is paywalled for them, I’ll never know. And no, my paper doesn’t offer gift links, so I can’t offer one. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/19 "2024-06-19T20:20:36Z")
> [@robby](#): > > the _New York Times_ used to allow a certain number of free articles My NYT subscription allows me to gift 10 articles a month. I use virtually all of those here. From the NYT help dept:…Subscribers can gift **10 gift News articles per month** : On the 1st of every month Subscribers’ gift articles reset to 10. When a gift article is shared with a recipient, they can read it with or without a subscription. Recipients have 30 days to read the article before access is revoked… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046/20 "2024-06-19T20:27:10Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > There may or may not be a paywall for a visitor to the site, but unless someone tells me that particular article is paywalled for them, I’ll never know. By the way, I don’t mind when someone posts something that’s paywalled because as you say they may have no way of knowing. I just mind when someone is offended that someone else points it out. (It’s awesome that you don’t seem to mind.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-clutter-about-newspaper-paywalls/1003046.md?page=2)