# threatening the president **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 3, 2004, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043 "2004-04-03T08:35:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![vinniepaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@vinniepaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vinniepaz)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/1 "2004-04-03T08:35:39Z")
im an avid hip-hop fan and many of the artists i listen to make violent statements towards the government, one rapper even going far enough as to include a full sized picture of the whitehouse with bush, cheney, powell, bin laden, and others lying with bullet holes. you may have heard of the recent eminem track with the lyrics "id rather see the president " which prompted a secret service investigation. my question is, is this legal? and if not, why are underground artists ignored while more mainstream artists are attacked? ---
**Author:** ![vinniepaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@vinniepaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vinniepaz)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/2 "2004-04-03T08:36:44Z")
> [@vinniepaz](#): > > im an avid hip-hop fan and many of the artists i listen to make violent statements towards the government, one rapper even going far enough as to include a full sized picture of the whitehouse with bush, cheney, powell, bin laden, and others lying with bullet holes. you may have heard of the recent eminem track with the lyrics "id rather see the president " which prompted a secret service investigation. my question is, is this legal? and if not, why are underground artists ignored while more mainstream artists are attacked? id rather see the president deead\* ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/3 "2004-04-03T14:32:10Z")
IANAL but I do know that freedom of speech has its limits, and I believe advocating violence is one of them (clear and present danger, maybe?) I imagine it woud be difficult to prosecute an “artist” because they could claim that they weren’t actually advocating violence, but rather had just created a “character” who was advocating violence. Finally, what mainstream artist has been attacked for this? ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/4 "2004-04-03T15:56:46Z")
He wasn’t threatening the president but you surely remember the $\*&@storm over Ice T’s _Cop Killer_. I’m not aware that he was specifically prosecuted but he was certainly attacked over it. ---
**Author:** ![LuckySevens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LuckySevens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LuckySevens)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/5 "2004-04-03T16:39:56Z")
> [@Padeye](#): > > He wasn’t threatening the president but you surely remember the $\*&@storm over Ice T’s _Cop Killer_. I’m not aware that he was specifically prosecuted but he was certainly attacked over it. Ironic, since he plays a cop now in Law and Order: SVU. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/6 "2004-04-03T16:46:42Z")
Here’s the relevant federal [law](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/871.html): > [@](#): > > Sec. 871. - Threats against President and successors to the Presidency > > (a) > > Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. ---
**Author:** ![vinniepaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@vinniepaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vinniepaz)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/7 "2004-04-03T18:08:29Z")
> [@bnorton](#): > > Finally, what mainstream artist has been attacked for this? Eminem recently as i stated in the OP. what does ANAL or whatever you said mean… the acronym at the beginning of your post…? ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/8 "2004-04-03T18:50:15Z")
> [@vinniepaz](#): > > what does ANAL or whatever you said mean… the acronym at the beginning of your post…? IANAL = I Am Not A Lawyer ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/9 "2004-04-03T18:51:28Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Here’s the relevant federal [law](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/871.html): So it’s ok to threaten others, I guess. **vinniepaz** , it’s not what you think. IANA(L)awyer I am not a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![vinniepaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@vinniepaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vinniepaz)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/10 "2004-04-03T19:32:13Z")
ok… but then why are less mainstream artists ignored? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/11 "2004-04-03T23:07:17Z")
Advocating violence is fine. You can walk around saying “Kill the President!” all day. What you _can’t_ do is advocate imminent violence- eg. “We’re going to kill the president right now!” So, unless it’s a live show and the offender then starts walking toward Pennsylvania Avenue with a bat or something, he’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/12 "2004-04-04T00:27:41Z")
> [@vinniepaz](#): > > ok… but then why are less mainstream artists ignored? I think you answered your own question. Less publicity equals less chance that someone will take notice and take action on the perceived threat. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/13 "2004-04-04T00:46:10Z")
“I’d rather see the president dead”, is simply expressing a preference for one state of affairs over another. It would be very hard, I imaginr, to convince a jury that it constitutes a threat at all. Hence the lack of prosecution. I hadn’t heard about this investigation before. I’m curious how the Secret Service would investigate song lyrics. Once they sent out a SWAT team to buy the CD, and listen to it, what else did they do? Any details published about this? ---
**Author:** ![quothz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/da6949/32.png) [@quothz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quothz)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/14 "2004-04-04T03:53:06Z")
> [@Boyo Jim](#): > > I hadn’t heard about this investigation before. I’m curious how the Secret Service would investigate song lyrics. Once they sent out a SWAT team to buy the CD, and listen to it, what else did they do? Any details published about this? I _do_ remember that. A quick look reminds me that there _wasn’t_ an investigation, or at least not in the news I saw, just discussion about _whether or not_ one was warranted. [Here’s CNN online’s story](http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/12/05/eminem.lyrics/index.html) from last December. “It would be saying too much to make too big a deal out of this,” one Secret Service official said. ---
**Author:** ![LuckySevens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LuckySevens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LuckySevens)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/15 "2004-04-04T04:21:56Z")
> [@Boyo Jim](#): > > “I’d rather see the president dead”, is simply expressing a preference for one state of affairs over another. It would be very hard, I imaginr, to convince a jury that it constitutes a threat at all. Hence the lack of prosecution. > > I hadn’t heard about this investigation before. I’m curious how the Secret Service would investigate song lyrics. Once they sent out a SWAT team to buy the CD, and listen to it, what else did they do? Any details published about this? Probably try and gauge the motives of why something like that is placed on the CD. See if theres any truth to it, or if its just colourful language. ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/16 "2004-04-05T00:23:04Z")
Bottom line, the Secret Service isn’t stupid – why would it be in their best interest to be? Would anyone, hearing Eminem, known for provoking people and using shock value in his songs, perceive an offhanded comment against Bush as a serious threat? No, I don’t think so. At most, the Secret Service would give it a cursory glance and move on to things that were actually worth their attention. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/threatening-the-president/238043/17 "2004-04-05T01:42:14Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > So it’s ok to threaten others, I guess. Threatening a person’s life can be a crime, however it is almost always not a _federal_ crime.