# Three general groups of people, in relation to their approach to knowledge
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [July 5, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082 "2005-07-05T00:47:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Fuel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuel)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/1 "2005-07-05T00:47:22Z")
Just something I whipped up as I was pondering the nature of humans and this board:
There are people who are ignorant and naïve, who aren’t in a habit of applying sound logic. Then, there are people who are fully aware of logical fallacies, and their senses are piqued for BS and misinformation. These folks think they are special, that they are enlightened and that they are above the masses (and they are to some extent). _Some even feel they have a duty to the masses, to help them come to the 2nd stage of enlightenment where they reside in full knowledge._ Then, there are the people who have been through both these stages growing up and get bored with the 2nd phase. They no longer get hard-ons from seeing through peoples’ BS. They no longer feel fulfilled by “being right” and showing everyone else they are right. They still do these things and enjoy certain aspects of them, but they become irritated by sitting on their hands because the scientific method tells them to. They are sick of being handcuffed by the 5 senses and they seek to rise above them. This group takes care to not become depraved in their thinking and superfluous in delusions of grandeur, because, indeed, this is what they are mettling with. Oh, make no mistake, this group does occasionally deal with issues in ridiculous ways, by any means of measurement. But on the whole, this group lives life for themselves (unlike many of the 2nd group members who mostly live in terms of other people) and they do very well for themselves by choosing to think like they do. They may not get along with others as well as they could, and their existence may seem very undesirable to those who are not in the group. They may make some mistakes which create problems here and there for themselves. But, this group commonly enjoys an existence far more enriching and fulfilling than the other two. _This group is able to enjoy the childlike bliss of the 1st group without internally dealing with the self-destructive, stone-cold “show me” mentality of the 2nd group._ This group is mistaken by the 2nd group as a part of the first group, and rightly so because many times there is a very fine line between the two, perceptually anyways. See, the 2nd group can only see what is clear truth. They are bound by numbers, by solid exact observed occurrences and any appeal to what does not fall under these categories is mistaken to be 1st group material.
(It is worth noting, people can function as different groups at different times in their life. No higher force is keeping people in their respective groups. Many of the most successful, influential people are the ones who are predominantly 2nd groupers, but who have a pure enough attitude toward the 3rd group that they dabble in the 3rd groups’ type of thinking at crucial times in their life. These times are when the breakthroughs occur in their lives.)
Now, the 3rd group: This group is willing to do proactive things in the absence of needed information (default actions or contingency plans). This group is willing to do things without sufficient reason, usually in order to get pleasure or peace or well-being, because they know that they _may_ achieve these things if they do the action (and knowing if they do enough of these things, they will hit the nail on the head more than once). The key is that these people are not ashamed about doing this, like the 2nd groupers would be. (Shame keeps many 2nd groupers from reaching the 3rd phase because they feel they have “something to lose” by thinking this way.) 3rd groupers take full advantage of free will by choosing to do things that they are not necessarily conditioned to do. 3rd groupers know that there are opportunities to be “right” (without receiving the “green light” from logic and the scientific method) before the 5 senses can provide materials necessary to be right. 3rd groupers utilize intuition. All the while, 3rd groupers are using the 2nd groups’ logic and science when they feel it is appropriate…… it’s a personal choice in order to produce personal preferences. Which group do you find more appealing, the one which provides total bliss, while destruction lies await…… the one that handcuffs you to the 5 senses and usually results in a cold internal and external existence,…… or the one which offers the sky as the limit, provides ways to transcend the “fight against ignorance” _and its accompanying mentality_ and enables you to be a unique human being? We all have a little of 3 in us and let’s admit it, we like it.
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/2 "2005-07-05T00:55:00Z")
Cite? 😃
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### Author:  [@j\_sum1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_sum1)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/3 "2005-07-05T02:26:54Z")
Ummm, d’ya want to couch that in some sort of context?
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### Author:  [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/4 "2005-07-05T02:31:52Z")
No offense, but could you break that into paragraphs. When I see huge chunks of text like that my eye glaze over.
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### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/5 "2005-07-05T03:05:43Z")
Okay, after copying your post to Wordpad and inserting paragraph spaces so I could actually read it, I have come to the conclusion that someone was hitting the bong pretty hard today.
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### Author:  [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/6 "2005-07-05T03:21:36Z")
I prefer the fourth group.
You know, the ones who are well educated, curious and willing to help when someone needs it? They share whatever knowledge they have, without condescension. They have grown beyond the need to belittle others for the crime of not knowing.
Yeah, the ones that have moved beyond any sort of need to posture or pontificate. The ones that live their lives, without having to remind others of their incredible intellect and depth.
They also understand that one’s eye can be overwhelmed by an 8 inch paragraph.
:dubious: Ok, you’re deep, you understand the machinery of the mind.
Now, go clean up your room.
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### Author:  [@PastAllReason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastAllReason)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/7 "2005-07-05T03:26:42Z")
> [@featherlou](#):
>
> Okay, after copying your post to Wordpad and inserting paragraph spaces so I could actually read it,
Apparently I fall into the group that is too lazy to do that. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Fuel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuel)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/8 "2005-07-05T05:28:55Z")
Paragraphs Shmarigraphs… the people in the third group just take a picture of the paragraph into their minds, and then go lay on their bed and read it while looking at the ceiling. They’re just that good…
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### Author:  [@Fuel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuel)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/9 "2005-07-05T06:12:32Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#):
>
> Cite? 😃
Aw, don’t let this nugget of wisdom slip through your fingers again, doc!
(By the way, I didn’t need any doctors or tests to figure out I had sleep apnea, and I didn’t need to hear of any of the treatments in order to figure out what they were, CPAP, Pillar, tongue blade, injections… and the best part? A heart specialist 4 years prior misinterpreted my heart palpitations as stress, never asking me if I had sleep disturbances which could have caused it. Guess he would have felt pretty stupid if I died of the run of VT I had 3 months ago @ 3am after a particularly disturbing, choking-induced dream about bullfrogs who’s throats suddenly stopped visually croaking… he he, after positing that my bad dreams were a symptom of said disorder, my high and mighty nephrologist uncle said sleep apnea couldn’t cause bad dreams!
Paragraph TWO: Each and every one of us is alone in our search for personal truth because no one else is going to do it for us … recognize this reality and begin to support it. The people who are most capable of leading us into all truth are too often the very ones who blind us to it. It’s a damn shame.)
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### Author:  [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/10 "2005-07-05T06:13:51Z")
Holy crap, **Fuel** is channeling Quevedo!
> [@Francisco de Quevedo](#):
>
> En el mundo hay algunos que no saben nada y estudian para saber, y estos tienen buenos deseos y vano ejercicio, porque al cabo solo les sirve el estudio de conocer cómo toda la verdad la quedan ignorando. Otros hay que no saben nada y no estudian porque piensan que lo saben todo; son destos muchos irremediables; a estos se les ha de invidiar el ocio y la satisfactión y llorarles el seso. Otros hay que no saben nada y dicen que no saben nada porque piensan que saben algo de verdad, pues lo es que no saben nada, y a estos se les había de castigar la hipocresía con creerles la confesión. Otros hay, y en estos, que son los peores, entro yo, que no saben nada, ni quieren saber nada, ni creen que se sepa nada y dicen de todos que no saben nada y todos dicen dellos lo mismo y nadie miente. … Si te agradare y pareciere bien agradécelo a lo poco que sabes, pues de tan mala cosa te contentas; y si te pareciere malo, culpa mi ignorancia en escribirlo y la tuya en esperar otra cosa de mí. Dios te libre, lector, de prólogos largos y de malos epítetos.
> [@](#):
>
> **aurelian’s quick and dirty translation** :
> In the world there are those that don’t know anything and study to learn, but their good intentions are in vain, because in the end, study only teaches them thow little they know. There are others that don’t know anything and never study because they think they know everything; many of them are lost, and we can only envy their leisure and mourn their minds. There are others that know nothing and say they know nothing because they believe they have some truth, that they know nothing; we ought to punish their hypocrisy by believing them. There are others, and among these are the worst (myself included), that not only know nothing, they don’t even believe they know anything, and say that nobody knows anything, and everybody says the same thing about them, and neither group is lying. …If you like [my work], add it to what little you know, since you can content yourself with such a silly thing; and if you don’t, blame my ignorance in writing it and your’s in expecting anything else from me. May God save you, reader, from long prologues and bad epithets.
Nothing like managing to work Baroque Spanish literature into a post! 😛
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### Author:  [@Fuel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuel)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/11 "2005-07-05T06:32:41Z")
It is no coincidence that almost every authoritative/respectable figure in mine and my brothers’ lives have failed to impress us, have failed to prove that they were A.O.K. across the board. Sure, out of the good number of accomplished persons we have been blessed with in our life, we have witnessed some impressive memorization skills, some clear-headed theories, some complex puzzles solved, some miraculous success in their pursuits, ect. but all have gone on to prove their obvious flaws tenfold… these _countless_ experiences has led to a conclusion that one must rise above in some way to avoid missing out on whole life as these individuals are doing at this present moment. One cannot hope to play by the same mainstream rules and hope to experience life to its fullest. One cannot hope to log on to SDMB and follow the trademark educational and humanitarian methodology and expect to be a whole person. That is only where it starts.
Take a deep breath and wonder: How can I possibly know if I am as close to my personal perfection as I can be right now? How can I know if I am missing out on potential additions to myself? You can’t know on your own, for lack of a sufficient perspective. What you _can_ do is _position_ yourself. This “position” is the 3rd group mentality.
By the way, there _is_ a fourth group, but you all are not ready for that thread yet. 😃 j/k
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### Author:  [@Fuel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuel)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/12 "2005-07-05T07:05:59Z")
I’ll add to the Spanish dude, if I may: I believe I know lots, and I believe that there is lots more to know. Much of what is yet to be known is simply knowing what I don’t know, but at any rate, its still new knowledge.
As far as everyone else, who knows, maybe they know more than me, but then why don’t I see evidence of this? Maybe its because people seek knowledge from the places they know it to be hidden, only they stop looking for new places to search because they are overwhelmed with the amount of knowledge that is available to them from the first couple places.
So, maybe the key is to think only in terms of your “current understanding”, rather than “this is what I know/believe”? oooooo, that phrase sounds so pure…
That Spanish dude is dealing with it very simply, which I can’t fault him for. But, he needs to think in terms of spectrums, not dealing with possibilities from a list…
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### Author:  [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/13 "2005-07-05T07:38:39Z")
> [@Fuel](#):
>
> They still do these things and enjoy certain aspects of them, but they become irritated by sitting on their hands because the scientific method tells them to. They are sick of being handcuffed by the 5 senses and they seek to rise above them.
:rolleyes:
Funny, you mentioned three groups and missed the all important group that this board is here to serve: those who actually DO try to think.
Of course this special indigo third group of yours is obviously just yourself, who, if you were honest with yourself, would be in group two, based upon your disdain for logic.
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### Author:  [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/14 "2005-07-05T08:37:58Z")
Dude, I didn’t get a lot of sleep and you’re totally freakin’ me out. :eek:
\
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/15 "2005-07-05T08:44:33Z")
There are actually only two groups of people:
1. folks who try to categorise everyone
2. everyone else.
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### Author:  [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/16 "2005-07-05T10:20:20Z")
My God, gang, **Fuel** ’s right!
See, you’ve got your first group, which doesn’t know _anything_ and can’t think _at all_. I’ve never met anyone like that, but they’re not cool enough to discuss anyhow, so let’s move on.
Then you have the second group: high school science teachers (but not English teachers, apparently). Sure they know stuff, but they’re a bunch of snobbish pedants, flaunting their knowledge by trying to teach others (the _noive_!) what they know. Also way uncool.
Then you have the third group, functioning at a _much_ higher level. They can take or leave knowledge and reason (and all five senses too) because they’re all intuitive geniuses. Not much is known about these guys because (a) they are universally misunderstood and (b) they’re too busy self-actualizing to mix with the rabble, but it can be inferred that at some point they received a poor grade on a high-school science test.
It can be hard to recognize these enlightened souls because from the outside they look exactly like the know-nothings in Group One, injected with a large dose of liquid Ayn Rand. Only when one dares to identify himself or herself as one of this elite can we know for sure.
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### Author:  [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/17 "2005-07-05T10:53:02Z")
> [@Fuel](#):
>
> There are people who are ignorant and naïve, who aren’t in a habit of applying sound logic.
I see that you’ve met my mother.
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### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/18 "2005-07-05T13:53:48Z")
Nonono, **King of Soup** , this is how the groups break down:
1. Dead people
2. First year college students
3. People too smart for Mensa (I met one of these once)
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### Author:  [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/19 "2005-07-05T14:17:58Z")
My dad taught me a little ditty when I was in early school years that I have since heard in many forms, all of which have been similar.
You can find some of them [here](http://www.xenodochy.org/ex/quotes/knowsnot.html) but the version Daddy used was:
He who knows not and knows not that he knows not, is a fool … shun him.
He who knows not and knows that he knows not, is ignorant … teach him.
He who knows and knows not that he knows, is asleep … wake him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, is a wise man … follow him.
The obvious problem group in this breakdown is the first one. To try to single out the ones who “know not and know not that they know not” requires a large portion of what the fourth group possesses. In my own interpretation of this ditty, it boils down to “knowing” stuff that counts versus stuff that doesn’t. And that’s a matter of personal taste for the most part.
Try making a list of things you “really know” some time. It’s hard.
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### Author:  [@Fuel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuel)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-general-groups-of-people-in-relation-to-their-approach-to-knowledge/311082/20 "2005-07-05T16:45:22Z")
> [@Dan Norder](#):
>
> :rolleyes:
>
> Of course this special indigo third group of yours is obviously just yourself, who, if you were honest with yourself, would be in group two, based upon your disdain for logic.
Well, its obvious you didn’t read the post very well… typical of the average Doper, with the seethingly frantic, knee-jerk, impulsive double-clicking finger always a bit ahead of _full_ consideration. This is the downfall of the _otherwise admirable_ Doper: That joke or clever comeback is so nearly in site (and that post counter getting to 1k is making you drool so much that), it is hard to tell it to wait for another round of reading or consideration.
Take this message board concept, blow it up to life size reality, and you have one of the most crucial life-lessons to be learned: Think, then stop and think again… rinse, lather, repeat until you have evidence that your thinking is working. Communication requires this, especially on a message board.
So, what group would I be in again?
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