# Three Heinlein Books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 1, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857 "2005-11-01T03:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/21 "2005-11-01T15:26:27Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Heinlein also seems to love the needless, extended compliment from one character to another. It shows up here in Spacesuit, and in The Cat who walks through walls it downright brings the novel to a standstill at times. I get that character X thinks character Y is the most wondiferous, sensational, brilliant, lovely, generous person ever in the history of history but you don’t need to keep reminding us of this every few pages. That’s definitely characteristic of Heinlein. The moral of the story (or at least what I take away from it) is that you should surround yourself with people you admire, and appreciate them for their gifts, and tell them about it every once and a while (though probably less often than every few pages.) I’ve had to “train” some of my friends to accept heartfelt compliments, but I like to tell my friends now and then why I think they’re great. You can also see the influence of Heinlein on polyamourous subculture even in his G-rated juvies. Even in nonsexual relationships, polies seem to throw themselves into loving their friends more intensely, or at least they talk about that love more openly. 'Course, it’s also characteristic of him to be just a little bit too in love with his own characters, and to want to beat you over the head occasionally with R. A. Heinlein’s Definiton of a Good Person. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/22 "2005-11-01T15:37:34Z")
And I forgot to mention that one of my favorite Heinlein quotes of all time is in _Have Spacesuit_: “Son, any statement that begins with ‘I really ought to—’ is suspect. It means you haven’t analyzed your motives. … Find out what you want to do, then do it. Never talk yourself into doing something you don’t want.” (Man, I love Amazon’s search in book feature! I almost had it from memory, but it was nice to get the [exact wording](http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0345324412/ref=sib_vae_pg_23/102-3181472-9749712?%5Fencoding=UTF8&keywords=motives&p=S00T&twc=2&checkSum=CsP9WoaPxB5961zyNkqTcOcqL7gh1zfKDnTqQJTOQRQ%3D#reader-page).) ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/23 "2005-11-01T16:32:59Z")
I have great difficulty being objective about _Have Spacesuit, Will Travel_. It was not merely the first Heinlein I ever read, but the first novel of any kind. It holds a sort of mythic quality in my memory, as the gate that led me into a vast new world. It was the first kiss in my lifelong love of books. However, even making an effort to set that aside, I think it holds up well both as SF and as a coming-of-age tale. I think that was the thing that resonated most strongly with me, even though I was very young at the time–the idea of being pulled away from the familiar support of home and family and having to take a stand on your own. That seemed to me, at the time, to crystallize the essence of growing up. The character of the Mother Thing is an element that still fascinates me when I return to the book. The idea of a kind, caring, protective being who is, frankly, _very_ alien is one of the more important ones in the book, I think. It strikes directly against the “different is bad/scary” mindset that so often plagues us. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/24 "2005-11-02T00:24:59Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > I have great difficulty being objective about _Have Spacesuit, Will Travel_. It was not merely the first Heinlein I ever read, but the first novel of any kind. It holds a sort of mythic quality in my memory, as the gate that led me into a vast new world. It was the first kiss in my lifelong love of books. > > However, even making an effort to set that aside, I think it holds up well both as SF and as a coming-of-age tale. I think that was the thing that resonated most strongly with me, even though I was very young at the time–the idea of being pulled away from the familiar support of home and family and having to take a stand on your own. That seemed to me, at the time, to crystallize the essence of growing up. > > The character of the Mother Thing is an element that still fascinates me when I return to the book. The idea of a kind, caring, protective being who is, frankly, _very_ alien is one of the more important ones in the book, I think. It strikes directly against the “different is bad/scary” mindset that so often plagues us. Everything you say I consider very, very true. (It was not my first SF, but one of the earliest.) But I want to add one point: In my opinion, it is the **perfect** first SF novel, to introduce someone to the genre. It’s fallen slightly from that role in the 50 years it’s been in print, but still is damn near ideal. Consider: From the 50’s perspective, a very-near-future setting, Small town America, with TV linking it to the greater world, in which we have a single small base on the Moon. It starts quite literally in one’s own backyard. Then by steps, the scene moves to the Moon, Pluto, a planet of Vega, and the Small Magellanic Cloud, the significance of what’s happening increases in the same geometric proportion, Kip is called on to grow and take on adult decisions and responsibility, and through it all a sense of what it means to be human remains constant. If **that** doesn’t simultaneously trigger your sense of wonder and expand your horizons of what’s possible (“Science fiction is the literature of the possible.”), then reload your cartridge of Grand Theft Auto and give up reading; you’re brain dead. ---
**Author:** ![Iacob\_Matthew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Iacob\_Matthew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iacob_Matthew)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/25 "2005-11-02T03:43:32Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Have Space Suit, Will Travel was the first Heinlein book I ever read—at age 8—and I’ve read it literally hundreds of times since. Awesome book, with unforgettable characters and a true sense of wonder. One thing that always strikes me is just how unself-conscious and humble Kip is. I came in here to say exactly this- even the age is the right year. The first 50 & last 50 pages are near-perfect, and the rest are still damn good. I’ll throw in with the “_Door Into Summer_ is my favorite” crowd- it’s got about 20 pages near the middle that could be cut, but they’re slow-going exposition rather than worthless. I’d probably recommend a book of short stories next- _The Past Through Tomorrow_ isn’t a bad choice. As for _Job_-It’s hard to recommend. At the very least read Voltaire’s [Candide](http://www.literature.org/authors/voltaire/candide/) first- so you get an idea of what RAH’s parodying. If you can find copies, _Faust_ & [Jurgen](http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/CABELL/title.htm) add something- it’s basically the latter book with the main character willing to admit he’s wrong and getting a happy ending. If you’ve read these, then I’d say go for it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/26 "2005-11-02T06:10:47Z")
Quoth **Baker** : > [@](#): > > Not my favorite juvenile, but I like it. > > Now, I liked all his juveniles, but my favorite was Space Cadet. A man after my own heart. I also think that _Spacesuit_ is a bit overrated (though still not bad), and my favorite juvie is also _Space Cadet_. I think my favorite aspect of it was the sense of “responsible responsibility”, if you will, which pervades it. A common theme in Heinlein’s books, but more prevelant in _Space Cadet_ than the others, I think. And I get shivers down my spine whenever they call the roll… “‘Dahlquist?’ ‘I answer for him’”. Quoth **OtakuLoki** : > [@](#): > > Other authors, paying close attention to the known theories made similar mistakes: Larry Niven talks about Pluto being the most dense object in the Solar System, and that the darkside of Mercury is the coldest spot in the Solar System, both of which are now known to be untrue. With regards to the dark side of Mercury, it was actually between the story’s acceptance and its publication that the news came that Mercury was not locked. Niven frantically contacted the publisher, and apologized that the story would have to be canned. The publisher (I can’t remember who) said that true or not, it was still a good story, and he’d still publish it. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/27 "2005-11-02T06:27:04Z")
jrfranchi, silenus. I thank you both very much for your offers and I’ll definitely be taking you up on them if the offers are still available down the line. Up on my plate thus far is Door, then the George RR Martin book, then Moon, and finally I’ll be tackling a different genre with The Blind Watchmaker by Dawkins though I doubt that’s the kind of book you sit down and read through from start to finish. After that and a short story collection I’m still working my way though I should be ready for more. RikWriter, perhaps illogical isn’t the right term, per se, but I doubt if the sudden introduction of an invading alien species followed by entire groupings of aliens with the ability to bend space, time and entire planets across axis not known to man to be what one would consider logical. (hi run on!) Here was a nice story of a boy with dreams of space travel off for a jaunt through the countryside and then BAM! Two alien crafts land near him and the entire structure of the story changes. It wasn’t bad by any means, merely a tad unexpected. It didn’t quite fit with what had happened thus far in the story and it kept getting stranger as we went along. Oh, and there seemed to be a bit of fuzzy math as well. First, Kip assumes that Wormface’s people have faster than light travel merely because he can extend an equation far enough along that acceleration must break 188,000 m/s. This would be like saying that because the Porche is capable of going 0-60 in 5 seconds then in 1 minute it will be traveling at 1200 MPH. Doesn’t quite work that way. Second, the mass of Pluto is .002 that of Earth and your weight there is 1/15th that of Earth’s. So it seems strange that Kip couldn’t jump the full 18 feet required to reach the top of room he was trapped in on Wormface’s base. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/28 "2005-11-02T06:33:19Z")
Chronos, I may be mistaken, but I believe the guy you’re speaking of was Charles Sheffield. I say this because he wrote the various introductions to the collection called the Super Hugos where I think I first heard that story. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linus_Van_Pelt)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/29 "2005-11-02T07:29:58Z")
**Balance** , it’s funny that you’ve mentioned that. Your experience is very similar to mine with regard to _Have Spacesuit, Will Travel_. Although I cut my teeth on kids’ SF (such as _The Spaceship Under the Apple Tree_ and the _Danny Dunn_ books), I consider _HSWT_ to be the first adult SF I ever read (Yes, I’m aware that it’s one of the “juveniles”. That’s a silly designation. Well… maybe not silly, but a designation that’s more of a historical curiosity than anything else. His “juveniles” had adult themes, conflict, moral/ethical dilemmas, etc. Pretty much everything but the sex.) So I, too, have a soft spot for _HSWT_. BTW, somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to remember that the book once had another title. Am I hallucinating that? Is there another Heinlein that was renamed and I’m confusing them? Have I simply lost my mind? _(Don’t be silly, chum. Of course you have.)_ **Enderw24** , I had much the same reaction as you did regarding the plot, but my “bam!” moment is when Kip wakes up on Vega. Until then it’s a straight action-adventure against a bunch of BEMs, then it takes a sudden turn to a sort-of intergalactic courtroom drama. It doesn’t hurt the story, but it can throw you a bit off your stride. Regarding Pluto, don’t forget that until (someone correct me if I’m wrong) 1977 or so, Pluto was thought to be much larger - somewhere between Mercury and Mars sized. I believe that this was due to it’s high reflectivity and the fact that previous telescopic observation couldn’t resolve well enough to distinguish Charon as a seperate body. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/30 "2005-11-02T08:34:39Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Oh, and there seemed to be a bit of fuzzy math as well. First, Kip assumes that Wormface’s people have faster than light travel merely because he can extend an equation far enough along that acceleration must break 188,000 m/s. I don’t think so. It’s been a long time since I read the book, but I thought his conclusion was merely something like, “Why, these monsters had star travel!” I think he was thinking along the lines of being able to accelerate to significant fractions of the speed of light and get from star to star in a matter of years, not centuries. When the Mother Thing’s ship arrived FTL, Kip could not believe it. He was not prepared for that at all. > [@](#): > > Second, the mass of Pluto is .002 that of Earth and your weight there is 1/15th that of Earth’s. So it seems strange that Kip couldn’t jump the full 18 feet required to reach the top of room he was trapped in on Wormface’s base. Was the mass of Pluto well known when Heinlein wrote the novel? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/31 "2005-11-02T09:54:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A man after my own heart. (See post 26) Actually, I’m a\* woman\* after your own heart! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/32 "2005-11-02T15:35:15Z")
I cannot wait to see what **Ender** has to say about _The Door Into Summer_ (and if we want to start discussing it before he reads it, I’d be highly in favor, recommending spoilers so as not to give away plotline for him ahead of time). What I think about it can best be inferred from noting the upper right of this post. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/33 "2005-11-02T16:14:51Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I cannot wait to see what **Ender** has to say about _The Door Into Summer_ (and if we want to start discussing it before he reads it, I’d be highly in favor, recommending spoilers so as not to give away plotline for him ahead of time). What I think about it can best be inferred from noting the upper right of this post. 🙂 Well I’ve only had an hour to read so far but it’s an extremely fast read. I’m 50 pages into it. Not much has happened yet, obviously, but one thing I found to be hilarious. Heinlein invented the Roomba! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/34 "2005-11-02T16:21:07Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Well I’ve only had an hour to read so far but it’s an extremely fast read. I’m 50 pages into it. Not much has happened yet, obviously, but one thing I found to be hilarious. > Heinlein invented the Roomba! He really holds a patent on the waterbed and was quite brilliant. His history is fairly amazing and the old Sci-Fi writers hold him on a very high pedestal. Larry Niven will sneak in a character who is Heinlein into his stories sometimes. Enjoy, Door is a great book. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/35 "2005-11-02T16:35:53Z")
HSWT has one of my favorite types of end-bits in it… they’re back on earth, things are settling back to normal, and Kip’s bummed about his college chances, when the mildly-deus-ex-machina governmental official points out, “He went on a trip to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud and he can’t get into MIT? I think we can help with that…” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/36 "2005-11-02T16:50:19Z")
My personal RAH favorites: _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ - Good revolutionary/political satire, with many parallels to British-occupied Boston, c. 1773-75. _Starship Troopers_ - Great military sci-fi, with considerable exploration of an intriguing - and disturbingly plausible - future quasi-fascist society. _The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag_ - A creepy, somewhat surreal but deeply affecting story. _Glory Road_ - Fun D&D style adventure tale. _The Puppet Masters_ - Another good, creepy book - compulsively readable. I’ve also always had a soft spot for the short story _All You Zombies…_, which is the prototypical time-travel-paradox yarn. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/37 "2005-11-02T16:51:16Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > He really holds a patent on the waterbed and was quite brilliant. Nope. There is no patent on the water bed; the concept of it is in the public domain, owing to Heinlein having written the details of the concept into a novel (_Stranger In A Strange Land_, although he may have written something about it earlier). Later on, someone else tried to patent the waterbed but was rejected because it was already in public domain. I think Heinlein (and his then-future wife) do have their names on a couple of patents regarding attachment methods/fasteners for Plexiglass windows, but those patents are “owned” by the Department of The Navy (and have doubtless passed into the public domain by now). I don’t believe Heinlein ever patented any of the devices he details in his book, but he was famous (or perhaps notorious) for working them out in detail before writing about them. His training as a mechanical engineer becomes apparent when he talks about mechanical linkage design (_The Door Into Summer_), gyroscopic orientation control (_The Cat Who Walks Through Walls_), or a progressively boosted howitzer (_…If This Goes On_). _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_ is full of technical information and descriptions. He’s not the only scifi writer to do this–Clarke also jams in very exacting technical details–but Heinlein manages to segue hard science with three dimensional characters, something very few authors can manage. And yeah, Niven (and many other post-Golden Age) writers will reference back to Heinlein; in the long-short _Spirals_ (can be found in the compilation _Limits_) the Admiral MeLeve character is clearly an avatar for Heinlein (former naval officer who wrote science fiction stories), and there is another story, the title of which escapes me, in which he has Senator William Proxmire paying a scientist to go back in time and cure Heinlein of tuberculosis so that he never leaves the Navy and inspires the space program…with unexpected results. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/38 "2005-11-02T17:03:39Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > …and there is another story, the title of which escapes me, in which he has Senator William Proxmire paying a scientist to go back in time and cure Heinlein of tuberculosis so that he never leaves the Navy and inspires the space program…with unexpected results. “The Return of William Proxmire” available in _N-Space_. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/39 "2005-11-02T17:07:11Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Nope. There is no patent on the water bed; the concept of it is in the public domain, owing to Heinlein having written the details of the concept into a novel (_Stranger In A Strange Land_, although he may have written something about it earlier). Later on, someone else tried to patent the waterbed but was rejected because it was already in public domain. I think Heinlein (and his then-future wife) do have their names on a couple of patents regarding attachment methods/fasteners for Plexiglass windows, but those patents are “owned” by the Department of The Navy (and have doubtless passed into the public domain by now). > > I don’t believe Heinlein ever patented any of the devices he details in his book, but he was famous (or perhaps notorious) for working them out in detail before writing about them. His training as a mechanical engineer becomes apparent when he talks about mechanical linkage design (_The Door Into Summer_), gyroscopic orientation control (_The Cat Who Walks Through Walls_), or a progressively boosted howitzer (_…If This Goes On_). _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_ is full of technical information and descriptions. He’s not the only scifi writer to do this–Clarke also jams in very exacting technical details–but Heinlein manages to segue hard science with three dimensional characters, something very few authors can manage. > > And yeah, Niven (and many other post-Golden Age) writers will reference back to Heinlein; in the long-short _Spirals_ (can be found in the compilation _Limits_) the Admiral MeLeve character is clearly an avatar for Heinlein (former naval officer who wrote science fiction stories), and there is another story, the title of which escapes me, in which he has Senator William Proxmire paying a scientist to go back in time and cure Heinlein of tuberculosis so that he never leaves the Navy and inspires the space program…with unexpected results. > > Stranger You are right of course. How about the Waldo, that is actually named after his character’s invention? Public Domain and respect or Patent? I got confused on the waterbed because his writings prevented a patent from being issued for the water bed. Is that more accurate? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857/40 "2005-11-02T17:09:24Z")
Heinlein (and several other noted scifi writers, including the authors themselves) appear - renamed but easily recognizable - in a scene in Niven and Pournelle’s _Footfall_, when the President consults with them as to how to respond to an alien invasion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-heinlein-books/328857.md?page=3)