# Three "wise" men find Jesus **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 25, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126 "2014-12-25T00:37:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/21 "2014-12-25T16:50:39Z")
Magi are Zoroastrian priests. From Persia, you know, the East. Magi did indeed also do astrology, and magic. The word _magic_ itself derives from these priests. It only shows that at the time this story was made up, magi were held to some awe in Judea. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/22 "2014-12-25T16:56:00Z")
What happen if you feed a magi after midnight? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/23 "2014-12-25T17:06:14Z")
You what? The OP already seems quite confused on the subject of religion. No need to confuse him any further ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/24 "2014-12-25T17:20:07Z")
As someone who actually knows something about astrology and not embarrassed to say so, the notion that an astrological configuration sent the magi on their search is intriguing but probably misleading. We have the advantage of searching the time period of, roughly, 4 to 7 b.c.e. and there are, of course, any number of remarkable and exceptional configurations, but nothing as truly spectacular as might be expected for the birth of a god. And, of course, a whole bunch of people were born that same day, we may fairly assume, and most of _them_ were quite ordinary. It’s all guesswork, of course, but the magi would need to have begun their search in advance, due to the travel times. So we might reasonably surmise that they saw such a epochal configuration long before it occurred. All well and good. Only problem is that there isn’t anything in that time frame that is so amazingly exceptional that it would provoke such a response. It is often noted that in the relevant time frame, the precession of the equinoxes arrived at what is called the “Piscean Age”, that is, the Spring Equinox taking place relative to the constellation of Pisces, passing from the Age of Aries. And, as many of you already know, there are tantalizing inferences and references to themes common to Pices, i.e., surrender, mysticism, sacrifice, etc. And, of course, fish. However, an “Age” simply doesn’t start on a given date, except for the most precise mathematical analysis, which would not have been available at the time. So its very unlikely that the magi would have been following up on that. Naked eye observation just isn’t that precise. TL:DR Probably not. But Merry Christmas anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/25 "2014-12-25T17:40:54Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > nm (confused about prisons and workhouses) It’s a reference to Scrooge. It’s one of the phrases he uses that show his early lack of any heart, and this one and a crack about “surplus population” come to HAUNT him – quite literally – when spirits visit him for the benefit of his soul. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/26 "2014-12-26T16:53:19Z")
It’s actually a mistranslation, see ? Way I heard, it weren’t three wise men. It was three wiseguys, came to give them tourists the old shakedown… ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/27 "2014-12-26T17:31:01Z")
Without qualification or disclaimer, the most reliable account is found here: [The Journey Of The Magi](http://allpoetry.com/The-Journey-Of-The-Magi) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/28 "2014-12-26T18:30:00Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Oh, a wise guy eh? > > Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck. And the not so wise men followed the Texaco Star, and carried Visa Gold, Frankenstein, and Merrman. > **[Frankenstein FOUND!](http://spacestationnathan.blogspot.com/2012/08/frankenstein-found.html)** > > We found him! Frankenstein was hiding out in this: the weirdest picture I've ever drawn. From Rick: Okay. So we said that this was ... ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/29 "2014-12-26T20:49:33Z")
They should have left him where they found him! Amirite? Anyone? High five? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/30 "2014-12-29T06:16:19Z")
The late, not-so-great Harold Camping argued it had to be a floating light – Tinkerbell or something akin – because anything over a few hundred feet in the air could not lead you to a specific domicile, as the Biblical account indicates. Try following an airplane some day: you might zero in on a suburb, but not a given house. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/31 "2014-12-29T16:09:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It’s all guesswork, of course, but the magi would need to have begun their search in advance, due to the travel times. How come? According to the book of Matthew, we just know that the magi arrived while Jesus was still a young child. Isn’t three or four years enough time to travel from Persia to Jerusalem? ETA: I guess two years is the time frame that Matthew implies, because Herod slayed all the boys two years and younger. But still, two years is enough time to travel from Persia. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/32 "2014-12-29T16:21:45Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > How come? According to the book of Matthew, we just know that the magi arrived while Jesus was still a young child. Isn’t three or four years enough time to travel from Persia to Jerusalem? > > ETA: I guess two years is the time frame that Matthew implies, because Herod slayed all the boys two years and younger. But still, two years is enough time to travel from Persia. Given that the OP demonstrates all the theological insight of a manger scene in a store window, I believe the time frame calculation was in rebuttal of the idea that the Magi arrived while Yeshua was still in swaddling clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/33 "2014-12-30T16:52:13Z")
Well, back then the difference between astronomy and astrology did not exist. At least those magi did actually learn about how star, planets, moon move and did actual observations. Also, aside from the gifts showing the the King/God/death angle, the symbolism that non-jews would recognise Him as Savior. And even if they read the horoscope from the newspaper and got to Behtelhem, there is no reasonable interpretation that reads “astrology is good”. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/34 "2014-12-30T17:06:47Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I asked my fundy sister about the “wise” men but she said that astrology isn’t Christian - but that’s how they knew there would be a great king (apparently) - an angel didn’t tell them, it was the stars. > BTW there is a DVD called “The Star” which I own which is about the star of Bethlehem: > [Review of "The Star of Bethlehem" - Reasons to Believe](http://www.reasons.org/articles/review-of-the-star-of-bethlehem) > **He found a conjunction of Jupiter (the “king planet”) and Regulus (the “king star”) in 3 BC, which he claims would have announced the conception of Jesus to the magi.** > > That involves astrology (the meaning behind stars and planets) rather than science. ‘Star’ is a biblical metaphor for angels. Cf. the line in Revelation 12 where the devil “draws a third of the stars of heaven”. I don’t see any real reason to think Matthew is talking here about astrology, rather than about some kind of supernatural revelation. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/35 "2014-12-30T17:09:01Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > ‘Star’ is a biblical metaphor for angels. Cf. the line in Revelation 12 where the devil “draws a third of the stars of heaven”. > > I don’t see any real reason to think Matthew is talking here about astrology, rather than about some kind of supernatural revelation. but - but - but - Astrology IS supernatural revelation! Who are you to state otherwise? What evidence do you have that astrology is NOT supernatural revelation?? and cite for the ‘biblical metaphor’ ?? you realize that Mathew and Revelation were coined by different authors, right? your ‘metaphor’ is just hand waving without some better evidence then “different authors used the same word to mean different things, therefore one must be a metaphor” ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/36 "2014-12-30T17:22:43Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > And even if they read the horoscope from the newspaper and got to Behtelhem, there is no reasonable interpretation that reads “astrology is good”. But a reasonable interpretation, if you believe the story, is “astrology is effective.” Which I think most Christians would have a problem with. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/37 "2014-12-30T17:47:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > A wise person would know that the Gospels don’t mention the specific number of magi (wise men) that allegedly came to acknowledge the birth of Jesus. There is a mention of 3 gifts, but not that there were 3 men. What, you mean some of them came to visit a new baby and didn’t even bring a teddy bear or something? Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/38 "2015-01-05T12:22:16Z")
> [@simster](#): > > and cite for the ‘biblical metaphor’ ?? you realize that Mathew and Revelation were coined by different authors, right? your ‘metaphor’ is just hand waving without some better evidence then “different authors used the same word to mean different things, therefore one must be a metaphor” Eastern Orthodox churches think the ‘star’ was essentially an angel not an actual star. The books of the bible are full of metaphor. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/39 "2015-01-05T16:10:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > A wise person would know that the Gospels don’t mention the specific number of magi (wise men) that allegedly came to acknowledge the birth of Jesus. There is a mention of 3 gifts, but not that there were 3 men. You fought a little ignorance today. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126/40 "2015-01-05T17:07:43Z")
> [@Arch\_Trout](#): > > Eastern Orthodox churches think the ‘star’ was essentially an angel not an actual star. > > The books of the bible are full of metaphor. they “thnk”, was “essentially” … “the books are full of metaphor” – so, what is literal, what is not? how do you decide which is which? Outside of any contextual discusion related to the language or the authors intent, etc - calling one star a metaphor and another literal is just a common handwaving exercise to explain away the contradictions. any time you have to start off a discussion with “well, he _ **really** _ meant this” - you’re already losing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/three-wise-men-find-jesus/708126.md?page=3)