# Thug - unacceptable racial slur? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 3, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202 "2021-03-03T15:06:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/161 "2021-03-04T16:52:13Z")
It’s not segregation if you’re doing it voluntarily, and doing it for good reasons. No reputable human rights organization would call any of those stupid attempted gotchas “segregation”. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/162 "2021-03-04T16:57:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It is a big deal. Doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. Some groups want some separate space. It might be a good idea or not (and I’ll concede some are probably not, while others probably are). That what college is for, to sort things out. If a Black dorm makes things better, great. If not, no real harm done. It’s completely different than a “white dorm,” and to say otherwise is to ignore a whole lot of the history of this country. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/163 "2021-03-04T16:59:28Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And selectively quoted ad-hominems is the way to prove it! Well, I could say that I find it curious that you’re taking a strong stand on an issue that does not concern you in any way, advocating a position that steamrolls over the individual rights of **the very people who are directly affected by these decisions** , and ignoring the crucial fact that your definition of individual rights also tramples all over the reality that people always, every moment, universally, including conservative locksteppers, band together into groups to better achieve their group goals, seen in the very foundation of the country and part of the basic definitions of government and society. Or I could ask whether your objection is that long-oppressed people are not trying to throw off that oppression in your personally approved only right way or whether you think they shouldn’t be taking any action at all. I can’t remember any solutions you’ve ever offered to the problems of systemic racism, so it may be the latter, or you may, somehow, despite hundreds of years of smothering piles of evidence, not believe in systemic racism at all and so think there is no problem to solve. Perhaps I could ask whether you think there should be a White History Month or a Congressional White Caucus or a series of Historically White Universities to balance out the apparent horrors of minority groups banding together to serve needs not available to them through the normal channels that so easily serve white needs. But that would be a waste of electrons. All that I would be saying is “we’re happy you’re wrong” in many more words. You are wrong, and every defense of your wrongness strengthens your opponents. If those are the attitudes of those who disagree, victory over oppressive racism is certain in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/164 "2021-03-04T17:08:50Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Ya know what the thread is missing? All of those cites where White people are being called thugs for the same reason\* Black people are. > Funny that. > \*Like playing football. [It does happen](https://www.ignboards.com/threads/roid-rage-thug-rob-gronkowski-suspended.455062477/), and I have seen a number of references to “MAGA thugs” but I agree the standard and frequency of usage is quite different. White politicians are called thugs frequently enough: [Biden called Guiliani a thug](https://deadline.com/2019/10/joe-biden-rudy-giuliani-a-thug-donald-trump-1202757802/) and [McConnell called Putin a thug](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/02/05/mitch-mcconnell-trump-russia-putin-a-thug-sotu.cnn) > [@Chingon](#): > > The reality is that the threshold for a Black person to get labelled a thug is different than it for a White person. > > So when I hear someone call a Black person a thug I have no idea where that someone’s threshold is. Maybe it’s because the Black person is wearing clothes they disapprove of. Maybe it’s because they are listening to music too loud. Maybe it’s because they are mugging someone. Without further context I don’t know, but I do know that in this culture, the term thug is misapplied to Black people much more frequently than White people so I will take that into account. > > This is why the term thug is racially charged. The thing is, couldn’t this apply to almost any sort of unfavourable term? People might apply terms like “shady”, “uneducated”, “violent”, “trashy”, “suspicious”, “lazy”, “threatening”, “criminal”, etc. with different standards based on race, and it is possible for these all to be used in a racist manner. Yet, I don’t know if any of those words could be considered racially charged like “thug” is - I think for “thug”, it might stem from rappers embracing “thug life” as part of their identity and the broader cultural association between “thug” and the n-word evolving from there. If rappers started calling each other “lazy boi” or something like that I think similar connotations could arise. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/165 "2021-03-04T17:14:33Z")
The Humpty Dumptying of language does effect me. Orwell was right in 1984 with his prediction of things like the Ministry of Truth and newspeak and doublethink. Oh, solutions to racism? Stop treating people differently based on race. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/166 "2021-03-04T17:15:54Z")
And, that’s the problem. You see segregation as something that may be great. I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/167 "2021-03-04T17:17:10Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > When I hear the word thug, I picture the classic FBI shooting range target. I most often think of Tupak and his “Thug Life” tattoo. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/168 "2021-03-04T17:19:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And, that’s the problem. You see segregation as something that may be great. I don’t. We have a Korean Bar Association (and many similar), we have Black Law Student societies (and many similar). I do think they’re great. I don’t think of them as “segregation.” Maybe you do. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/169 "2021-03-04T17:26:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Oh, solutions to racism? Stop treating people differently based on race. You mean like ending systemic racism? I’m all for that. Of course, you have to admit that such a thing exists first. I’m waiting. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/170 "2021-03-04T17:30:54Z")
That’s such broad term that it’s unlikely that those who find systemic racism everywhere, including in math and punctuality, will every be satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/171 "2021-03-04T17:32:01Z")
Dormitories and other physical spaces segregated by race are actual segregation. That’s not great or excusable. Forgive me for refusing to join in the doublethink. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/172 "2021-03-04T17:34:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > {…} we have Black Law Student societies {…} _b_lack . . . don’t get someone upset. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/173 "2021-03-04T17:58:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s such broad term that it’s unlikely that those who find systemic racism everywhere, including in math and punctuality, will every be satisfied. Therefore, let’s do nothing! Nothing is better! Well, better for me, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/174 "2021-03-04T18:07:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Dormitories and other physical spaces segregated by race are actual segregation. That’s not great or excusable. Forgive me for refusing to join in the doublethink. There are a number of towns that are very well known as having a high concentration of LGBTQ people, just as there are a number of cities known as “chocolate cities” based on a relatively high percentage of African-American citizens. Is this segregation, or is it voluntary association and assembly ? If the shopping mall’s offerings attracts an overwhelmingly female customer, is it segregated ? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/175 "2021-03-04T18:13:01Z")
That is voluntary association. Which, may prove problematic as well and which there may be no good solutions for. Especially since there is such a high positive feedback loop between prosperity of an area and the quality of education in that area. I see that as one of the biggest structural flaws in the US. Public institutions that set aside race based or sexuality based or religious based segregated spaces are engaged in a more harmful form of segregation. I did exclude gender. Which, I’ll admit that I’m having difficulty reconciling that particular inconsistency. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/176 "2021-03-04T18:18:03Z")
I guess I’m wondering, sociologically, - why you think tribalism was such a part of evolution - whether or not those factors still exist - whether or not tribalism still satisfies those needs - when and if those needs _gradually_ cease to exist, _how and at what pace_ tribalism wanes. Minorities have been besieged in one form or another since there _were_ minorities, while majorities basically enjoyed the freedom to disband and go free agent shortly after fire, the wheel, and edged weapons hit the stage. I really _do_ get the sense of that adage here: when all you’ve known is privilege, equality feels like oppression. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/177 "2021-03-04T21:24:36Z")
Good heavens, are we still having [this argument](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-steadfastly-reject-this-sudden-rush-to-redefine-thug-as-a-racial-slur/718959)? Yes, the word “thug” is widely regarded as a racially loaded term, and has been since well before that six-year-old thread was started. That’s not to say that everybody who uses the term intends it as a racial slur, or that every variant form of it is equally racially loaded. (The phrase “jackbooted thug” for some kind of government enforcer, for example, is pretty race-neutral AFAICT.) But if you choose to use the word “thug”, you should be aware that many people might consider your usage racist, because there are very many people who do use the word in a racist way. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/178 "2021-03-05T16:06:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > intends it as a racial slur, or that every variant form of it is equally racially loaded. (The phrase “jackbooted thug” for some kind of government enforcer, for example, is pretty race-neutral AFAICT.) Ironically, the phrase being used to refer to a racist (or at the very least fascist) goon. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/179 "2021-03-06T16:06:38Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > here are a number of towns that are very well known as having a high concentration of LGBTQ people, just as there are a number of cities known as “chocolate cities” based on a relatively high percentage of African-American citizens. > > Is this segregation, or is it voluntary association and assembly ? I believe that’s called de facto segregation. Edit: And just to be clear, I’m not opposed to organizations based around identity. There’s nothing wrong with having a Black Businessperson’s Alliance or an organization for LGBT students. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202/180 "2021-03-07T12:48:07Z")
Vi Hart did a nice illustration of how segregation tend to develop due to minor preferences to have “people like me” around. > **[Parable of the Polygons](https://ncase.me/polygons/)** > > A playable post on how harmless choices can make a harmful world. I think people who are usually in the majority don’t realize how stressful it is to always be the minority, though. I see organizations like “black businessperson’s alliance” as a way for their target audience to rest from being a minority, to build up the energy to thrive when they live most of their life as a minority. That is, i think these “temporary” bits of voluntary segregation make it easier for people to flourish without segregation the rest of the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thug-unacceptable-racial-slur/934202.md?page=10)