So by extension, if I start using the word thug in every thread discussing criminals should I be banned?
No, but that’s not the question. The question is if thug is a slur and if white people need to stop using it. This thread jumped to the conclusion that context no longer matters with respect to that word.
This is my example of society losing it’s fucking mind and justifying it because of “their perception”. No, some other person’s perception is not enough to mandate that rightminded people change their behavior. People perceive lots of things, often times it’s batshit crazy, we should rightly ignore them.
Who said anything close to that?
For the millionth time, use whatever words you feel you need to use.
Absolute nonsense. People in this thread keep saying that context matters and that words can be neutral in some instances and racist in others. I myself did. You’re falsifying what was said and can easily be read by anybody who cares to look.
No one is mandating anything. If people’s perceptions don’t matter to you, you’re free to go nuts with your word usage. But you don’t get to dictate that others will ignore it.
“This thread” has reached no conclusion. Various posters have expressed various viewpoints, not all of which are absolutist. Many, including myself, have said it is context dependent. You have set up a straw man to argue with.
If you didn’t want to discuss the meaning of your comment why did you post it?
What strawman am I promoting?
My position is: one probably shouldn’t use this word in reference to a black person, because it is widely perceived by them as being a racial slur. Evidence that that perception exists has been repeatedly presented in this thread, both by posters giving their own life experience and by cites to professional linguists.
I don’t think it’s reasonable to object to using it in a context where the target is obviously non-black, as in the case of the Capitol rioters. And indeed, AFAICT nobody has objected to its use in that context.
So what part of that do you disagree with? I’m kind of baffled as to why you feel so upset by people attempting to not speak in a way which might unintentionally offend others.
So you think Black people who find this term offensive aren’t looking at the situation from a different life experience than yours, they’re just “batshit crazy”? That’s an incredibly racist thing to say.
Not sure why this nuance is impossible for people to grasp, but we’re having an academic discussion here. No shit, I can say whatever I want. Never implied I can’t, so that’s a stupid strawman. What I’m saying is that we as a culture should be resistant to accepting as the new norm that anyone using the term thug is automatically assumed to be racially insensitive. Because of how severe the consequences are for these people in this cancel culture and because of how online bullying is now a past time that is gleefully cheered on by certain audiences. So yeah, this is a worthwhile debate and it’s not about whether I can be an asshole or not. Stop pretending it is and defend your point.
Another fucking strawman. Nobody at all is saying that it should be “the new norm that anyone using the term thug is automatically assumed to be racially insensitive”. Rather, white people are being informed that this assumption already is the norm among a significant portion of their neighbors.
Ok here is the permission you and @Dinsdale seem to want:
You can call anyone you want a thug in any scenario you want. You can call anyone you want a boy in any scenario you want.
I am sorry, but even if in the deepest part of your heart you think are using it the “correct” way, if you use those words in the wrong context some people might think negatively of you. There’s not much I can do to stop that from happening.
Hey Chingon - I’d be surprised if I asked you or anyone else for their permission.
I am a little confused by these assertions. Obviously, you shouldn’t say “Hey, look at that thug over there” if the person you’re calling a “thug” is not acting like “a violent or brutish criminal or bully”. (“Hey, look at that thug over there.” “What, you mean that guy who’s just standing there, minding his own business? What the hell is wrong with you?!?”)
But it seems like you’re saying that if Alice says the following:
“Guys, did you hear about Bob? Some thug just walked up to him on the street, bashed him in the head, and stole his wallet and his phone! Now Bob’s in the hospital with a fractured skull!”
That if the assailant was white (or Asian-American or whatever) then what Alice just said is not racist, but if the assailant happened to be black, then Alice’s use of the word “thug” is racist. That seems very odd to me, and I think I would push back against that.
Can you look at this post, which shows as a response to me, and clarify if I’m the one you meant to reply to?
When I hear the word thug, I picture the classic FBI shooting range target.
MODERATING
Whatever your opinions on the subject at hand, a great many participants in this thread need to watch how close they’re getting to the lines drawn in IMHO. This isn’t the Pit.
RickJay
Moderator
I’d suggest that arguing that people are crazy, ridiculous, lost their senses, etc. is never a good argument. If something doesn’t make sense to you, that doesn’t make everyone else crazy. There’s also nothing academic about such proclamations.
The exact argument you are using here was used for every single change that has ever been made to accommodate people of color. It’s always decried as crazy. But then it becomes normal, and people find it just fine.
I myself admit I didn’t know the racist connotations until Black people were talking about it. So, obviously, I stopped using it for any black people. Then I realized that it was also just being used for anyone going against authoritarianism, even if they were peaceful, in order to paint them as criminal. So I stopped using it altogether.
Language changes over time. I expect that, 20 years from now, I won’t speak the same way I do now. It’s not a big deal. I don’t see a reason to get offended unless I stop being able to communicate what I wish to communicate.
I use the words “hobbled” and “nerfed” instead of “crippled” now. I use “moronic,” “idiotic,” or superlatives on “stupid” instead of “retarded.” And I can use words like “brute,” “bully,” “gangster,” “goon” or whatever best fits instead of “thug.”
So I have no need to use a word that people have reported is taking on racial connotations or which I’ve seen misused to push a narrative I don’t support. Plus it’s a chance to expand my vocabulary, which I always find welcome.
Well you’d better stop using those as well.
Moron is a term once used in psychology and psychiatry to denote mild intellectual disability.[1]
[Idiot] was formerly a technical term in legal and psychiatric contexts for some kinds of profound intellectual disability where the mental age is two years or less, and the person cannot guard themself against common physical dangers. The term was gradually replaced by the term profound mental retardation (which has itself since been replaced by other terms).[1] Along with terms like moron, imbecile, and cretin, its use to describe people with mental disabilities is archaic and considered to be offensive.[2]