# "Thumbs up" gesture is obscene to Australians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 5, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592 "2004-10-05T01:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/1 "2004-10-05T01:52:25Z")
I was shocked to read from [this](http://www.windowontheworldinc.com/countryprofile/australia.html) site that the “thumbs up” gesture is considered obscene in Australia. What are the origins of this gesture being offensive? Why is it offensive - is it like “stick it up your ass?” Is it similar to giving the finger? Does anyone have any stories about offending an Aussie by giving them the thumbs up? Does Ebert know about this? Have any visiting dignitaries notoriously offended the entire country be flashing a thumbs up? More things from that same website: > [@](#): > > The “V” sign (made with index and middle fingers, palm facing inward) is a very vulgar gesture. Same questions as above - why is this offensive, and what exactly are you saying by making this gesture? Finally, that same site has this tidbit which utterly confuses me: > [@](#): > > Soup should be eaten by moving the spoon away from you, not toward you. How does the soup get to your mouth if you’re moving the spoon away from you? Are you supposed to hold the bowl under your neck? Extend your arm and then use the spoon as a catapult and throw the broth at your face? Finally, are these things considered offensive in New Zealand? I’m going to Auckland on vacation in November and I’d hate to accidentally offend anyone. I’d also like to maybe have some soup. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/2 "2004-10-05T02:00:23Z")
I have never heard that thumbs up is offensive in Australia. It isn’t in NZ though, so you can safely thumbs up to your hearts content. The two fingered gesture has basicly the same meaning as the not-so-polite one fingered gesture. The soup thing baffles me. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/3 "2004-10-05T02:07:37Z")
I’ve never considered the “thumbs up” gesture offensive. As to the soup - the etiquette that I was taught was to fill the spoon by moving it away from you i.e. you start at the side of the bowl closest to you and then move the spoon towards the centre of the bowl. Once the spoon is full you then raise it to your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/4 "2004-10-05T02:08:50Z")
The soup thing should say, “You should always move the soup away from **your lap** ,” which is how Miss Manners put it. In other words, when you put your spoon into the bowl, you should dip the soup with the far edge of the spoon rather than the edge nearest you. Then you move the spoon gracefully to your mouth and tip the soup in by tilting the spoon towards your lips (rather than sticking the entire bowl of the spoon into your mouth, say, or slurping the soup off of it). I suppose this phrase was meant to deal only with the niceties of loading the spoon, so to speak, and not of unloading it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/5 "2004-10-05T02:30:27Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > I have never heard that thumbs up is offensive in Australia. It isn’t in NZ though, so you can safely thumbs up to your hearts content. > > The two fingered gesture has basicly the same meaning as the not-so-polite one fingered gesture. > > The soup thing baffles me. Are you referring to the 2 fingered “V” (palm forward) or 2 fingers together (palm rearward). After watching older British sitcoms I believe their use of 2 fingers together means “up your’s” or “up your nose”. I think i’ts important that the English speaking colonies get their signals straight. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/6 "2004-10-05T02:30:59Z")
That website has popped up a couple of times on the board. To be fair, some of the suggestions there are reasonable but the ones about thumbs up and V are, to put it mildly, bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/7 "2004-10-05T02:45:18Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > That website has popped up a couple of times on the board. To be fair, some of the suggestions there are reasonable but the ones about thumbs up and V are, to put it mildly, bullshit. No the V thing is correct, considering that they say “palm inward”. Palm outwards means “victory”, palm inwards “up yours” ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/8 "2004-10-05T02:46:14Z")
It can be used in an offensive way in Australia, though this is perhaps a little old-fashioned. However, if an Australian used a thumb-up in an offensive way, it would be quite different from the way an American would give a friendly thumb up: you would know that the Australian was mimicking doing something pretty obscene to you. In any case, Australians all watch foreign TV and films, and know that the gesture means something different in other cultures: they might be amused, but they are unlkikely to be offended. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/9 "2004-10-05T02:59:10Z")
Other bullshit on that website: > [@](#): > > To beckon a waiter use a quiet hand motion. Well, no, you just catch their eye. Raise your hand if necessary. Don’t beckon the fricking waiter. > [@](#): > > Winking at women is considered rude. It’s not rude. It could be considered a pick-up attempt, but it’s not rude. > [@](#): > > The person who makes the invitation generally pays the bill in restaurants. Not that I’ve ever seen, with work meals or friend meals. Splitting the bill is the norm, unless someone makes an attempt to do otherwise. And if they try, you shouldn’t let them pay without a fight. > [@](#): > > The guest of honor is generally seated to the right of host. It’d be the guest of hono **u** , and no, they’re seated wherever they want to sit. Pre-chosen seating is rare except for a formal banquet, that kind of thing. > [@](#): > > Do not say “I’m stuffed” after a meal. This means you are pregnant. Bullshit. > [@](#): > > Australians wear fashions similar those worn by Europeans and North Americans > For business, men should wear conservative jackets and ties. During the summer months, jackets are often removed. Women should wear skirts and blouses or dresses. Well, duh. What’s the other option - everyone in a meeting dressed like Crocodile Dundee? > [@](#): > > Australia produces excellent wine. Taking wine would be like taking sand to the desert. If you’re invited to my house, you’re damned well bringing some booze. [/QUOTE] Don’t comment on anyone’s accent. Accents often distinguish social class. [/quote] Indeed. And one doesn’t want to irritate the working class, does one? They become quite irate when one picks them up on their grammar. > [@](#): > > Australians sit in the front seat of a taxi/limousine. A single passenger sitting in the back seat is viewed as “putting on airs.” Taxi’s right, but does anyone anywhere ride in the front seat of a limousine? Does anyone anywhere hire a limo without intending to put on airs? ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/10 "2004-10-05T03:02:04Z")
Thumbs up - not offensive V sign - What Princhester said Eating soup - you tilt the bowl away from you, so the soup collects in the far side of the bowl and then scoop the soup up by moving the spoon away from your body. This minimises risk of splashing soup on yourself, as the bowl acts as a barrier. All the rest is pretty accurate, except : _“Do not say “I’m stuffed” after a meal. This means you are pregnant.”_ This is not right. ---
**Author:** ![bitwise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@bitwise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bitwise)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/11 "2004-10-05T03:09:55Z")
> **[Shropshire News - BBC News](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/england/shropshire)** > > Get the latest news from the BBC in Shropshire: Local website with breaking news, sport, weather and travel from the area plus in-depth features, analysis, audio and video coverage; listen to BBC Radio Shropshire live and catch-up with local TV news. > [@](#): > > No wonder the French hated the English archers so much. A captured archer could expect short shrift - the usual French way of dealing with them was to cut off the index finger and the middle finger of the right hand. > > The unfortunate archers were then sent back to the English army, unable to draw their bows and use the weapon they had trained all their lives to master. > > Out of this came the infamous English V-sign - the two-fingered salute, which archers often directed towards the French armies prior to battle. > > It was meant as a taunt towards the French, as if to say: ‘Look - you haven’t cut off our fingers’, but the message was meant the same as it does today! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/12 "2004-10-05T03:22:54Z")
A hear some otherwise rugged Australians get a bit nervous when a large Tongan named John Hopoate gives the thumbs up, or even a finger up for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/13 "2004-10-05T03:31:39Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > It’d be the guest of hono **u** , and no, they’re seated wherever they want to sit. Goddamit Gaudere will you stop that. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/14 "2004-10-05T03:36:37Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > All the rest is pretty accurate, except : > _“Do not say “I’m stuffed” after a meal. This means you are pregnant.”_ > This is not right. I didn’t pick up as many errors as **Atticus Finch** - what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/15 "2004-10-05T03:43:47Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > No the V thing is correct, considering that they say “palm inward”. > > Palm outwards means “victory”, palm inwards “up yours” [Up yours, Hitler!](http://www.secondeguerre.net/churchill.htm) ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/16 "2004-10-05T03:52:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Australians sit in the front seat of a taxi/limousine. A single passenger sitting in the back seat is viewed as “putting on airs.” > [@Atticus Finch](#): > > Taxi’s right. This came as a surprise to me. Any other countries where this happens? New Zealand? Doesn’t a single passenger get in the back if (s)he wants a bit of peace and quiet, a kip or to use a laptop? Don’t you feel obliged to chat to the driver if you seat in the front? Otherwise, what’s the point? And if you clamber in the front and don’t talk, you look even more stuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/17 "2004-10-05T04:18:35Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > This came as a surprise to me. Any other countries where this happens? New Zealand? > > Doesn’t a single passenger get in the back if (s)he wants a bit of peace and quiet, a kip or to use a laptop? > > Don’t you feel obliged to chat to the driver if you seat in the front? Otherwise, what’s the point? And if you clamber in the front and don’t talk, you look even more stuck up. I generally sit in the front seat when I get a taxi. I used to do the same thing in New Zealand when I lived there. If you’re telling the taxi driver which route to take it’s much easier to do so from the front passenger seat. Ditto with paying the fare. But it really depends upon the circumstances and each passenger’s preference. Single women will often get into the back seat, particularly at night, and I don’t think anyone would intepret such an action as “stuck up”. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/18 "2004-10-05T04:23:25Z")
Well, women have to give directions and pay fares as much as men. So, what it comes down to is that if you’re a woman, it’s okay to sit in the back, and if you’re a man it’s frowned on as “getting a bit above your station, mate”? ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/19 "2004-10-05T04:42:45Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > Well, women have to give directions and pay fares as much as men. So, what it comes down to is that if you’re a woman, it’s okay to sit in the back, and if you’re a man it’s frowned on as “getting a bit above your station, mate”? No, I don’t think so. As I said earlier, it’s really a matter of personal preference. I know plenty of men who always sit in the back seat. But I generally sit in the front. I enjoy chatting with the driver. There’s more leg room. It’s easier to give directions and pay the fare. Others prefer sitting in the back. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592/20 "2004-10-05T04:45:15Z")
So another thumbs down to the website for taxi etiquette. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thumbs-up-gesture-is-obscene-to-australians/267592.md?page=2)