# Thunder, thunder... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2001, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunder-thunder/72636 "2001-07-16T04:07:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunder-thunder/72636/1 "2001-07-16T04:07:47Z")
So I spent the weekend at some friends’ place in Austin, and, amongst other things, we watched a couple of NASCAR races at the new Chicagoland speedway. This has caused me to wonder. I’ve heard tales before, but I’ve got to ask for some clarification. Is stock car racing as we know it now an outgrowth of the corn squeezin’s industry as depicted in [Thunder Road](http://us.imdb.com/Plot?0052293), where Pappy the moonshiner really needed the family Plymouth to be able to outrun a government car? If not, is there some connection? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunder-thunder/72636/2 "2001-07-16T12:33:08Z")
Poular Mechanics says yes… > [@](#): > > If you distilled your own, occasionally you’d have to run from the law. And the faster your car, the better chance you had of > getting away. So the South was full of guys building souped-up, stock-looking cars that could outrun the government revenuers. > Such vehicles, and the home-brewed hooch they carried, remained ways of life in the region even long after Prohibition was > repealed. > When there was no government agent around to give chase, the 'shine runners raced each other on the road and on the short > dirt tracks that were common in the region. By the late 1930s, the cars made it to the beaches of Daytona, driven by guys like > admitted 'shine runners Fonty Flock, Lee Petty and Junior Johnson. > The legend and the lore of moonshine is woven into the fabric of NASCAR. And the relationship hasn’t been lost on > Hollywood, which has helped sustain it at every chance. [http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/auto2/9808AUMSM.html#Moonshine](http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/auto2/9808AUMSM.html#Moonshine) ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunder-thunder/72636/3 "2001-07-16T20:18:52Z")
My 2¢: 'Shine or no 'shine, stock car racing would’ve come around eventually anyway, human nature being what it is. It’s not like its evolution depended 100% on all these rednecks running from the blues. But there’s certainly a connection: all the ‘shine running left a bunch of really fast cars in the South, which the good ol’ boys might otherwise not have built. The slate of early stars would’ve been different as well, as almost all of the first batch of drivers had gotten their training by hiding their hooch from The Man. Not to mention its effect on NASCAR policy even now: the reason NASCAR’s a lot less technologically complicated than other series, like Sportscar or Indy Car racing, has a lot to do with its roots as a low-tech “poor man’s racing.” So I guess the answer is yes, stock car racing **as we know it** is in effect an outgrowth of moonshine running. If there hadn’t been shiners all over, stock cars would’ve evolved differently. Keep in mind when you’re looking at Days of Thunder, just about the only authentic thing in that movie is that they put numbers on the cars. :rolleyes: Importantly, do not listen to their explanation of drafting. ---
**Author:** ![smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smoke)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunder-thunder/72636/4 "2001-07-16T20:51:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by racinchikki \* > \*\*Importantly, do not listen to their explanation of drafting. \*\* Without too much of a hijack, please explain. My only knowledge of drafting came from DOT. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunder-thunder/72636/5 "2001-07-16T21:41:05Z")
**smoke** , I haven’t watched DOT in two years, and I can’t remember exactly what Cole Trickle used as his explanation for drafting when he was doing his little sugarpacket thing on Nicole Kidman’s leg, but I do remember that he screwed it up. My best friend and I remarked upon that specifically. I think it was in his explanation of the slingshot effect. I could try and dig up the movie to refresh my memory… One thing I do know they got wrong, when you’re drafting, you don’t smash the person in front of you like they kept doing in that movie. It screws up your aerodynamics. There’s such a thing as “bump drafting,” but that’s just a very gentle nudge and keeping your front bumper tucked immediately under the bumper of your drafting buddy. ---
**Author:** ![bughunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@bughunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bughunter)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2001, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunder-thunder/72636/6 "2001-07-16T22:00:47Z")
Drafting means staying inside the slipstream of the car(s) ahead of you. I think the announcers and the in-car cameras on the Sunday race did a pretty good job of illustrating the effect of drafting on tactics and the basics of how it works. When you’re the car in the lead, driving 160-200 miles per hour at various points around the track, your biggest impediment is air resistance. (Assuming you don’t hit anything solid, that is.) This would be a bad thing at first consideration, but your car is designed to use this air resistance and transfer it into a force that presses you to the racetrack, creating more friction at the places where your tires meet the road, and thus giving you more maneuverability. Unfortunately, this maneuverability comes at a decrease in fuel efficiency. Now, when you’re not the lead car, which is more often the case for any driver (even Gordon), you have a choice: either use the slipstream to increase your fuel efficiency, or abandon it to increase your maneuverability. If you draft (stay in the slipstream) then you run the risk of not being maneuverable enough to stay on the best course around the track at the speeds at which the leader is travelling. The car ahead of you can do it, because he’s got better tire friction. However, you are using less gas to go the same speed, and so presumably the lead car will need to pit sooner than you. You can drop back some to “grab” more air, but to win you’re going to have to pass the guy ahead of you. This is where drafting and air resistance make the sport interesting. When you come out of the leader’s slipstream to pass him, it’s like your car is suddenly hit by a wall, and you’re pressed to the ground more. If your aerodynamic surfaces aren’t precisely balanced (and they intentionally aren’t), then you’re also going to feel a sideways force. Typically this force is to the left, to help you maneuver the turns. And since you’re also experiencing more drag, you need to be able to increase the throttle to compensate for it - more than compensate, since you’re trying to pass. All of these factors dictate the kinds of tactics used on a super speedway like Daytona and Chicagoland. It’s surprisingly a lot more like Grand Prix tactics than you’d think - you need to stay on the tail of the guy ahead of you and wait for him to make a mistake. Sometimes, if you’re right on his tail, you can psyche him out and increase the chance he’ll screw up and give you the opportunity to take the best line around a curve and pass him. Or you can try and pass on a straightaway and hope you’re not out of the groove when you get to the next turn. And if you’re in second position, then it may be a good idea to let the car ahead of you lead until the end of the race, because maybe you don’t have the fuel to lead the rest of the race, and it would be disasterous to take the lead too early - you’d just have to pit right at the end of the race. It looks like a simple sport, but it isn’t. It’s very subtle. And it takes a lot of stamina to drive those cars, and a lot of engineering and physics to build and race them. I think the more interesting thing about this weekend’s races was the effect that the new track surface had on the race. Lots of unexplained tire damage, a really narrow groove, and the resulting hazards from the unconditioned surfaces on the high parts of the turns. After Saturday’s incidents, I’m surprised there weren’t more on Sunday.