# Thunderbolt And Lightfoot
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [August 31, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067 "2014-08-31T19:19:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/1 "2014-08-31T19:19:17Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever seen the 1974 movie, but I knew the name. What I didn’t know was that there were a couple of Irish outlaws that called themselves Captain Thunderbolt and Captain Lightfoot in the early-19th Century. I didn’t find them on Wikipedia, but I found [this link](http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/?topic=2668.0). The link within that forum is no longer valid, but here’s a quote from it:
> [@](#):
>
> The real [“Thunderbolt and Lightfoot”] story goes back to 1818, when a Dr. John Wilson arrived in Dummerston, Vermont, and began practicing medicine. No one knew Dr. Wilson’s background. He always wore a scarf around his neck, and then and now, he enjoyed the company of ladies, and he often fell flat on his face at the town contradances. However, there were those who trusted Dr. Wilson drunk more than any other doctor sober. He eventually moved to Newfane, then to Brattleboro, married, had a son, was either separated or divorced, and then, in 1847, contracted an unrecorded disease and died.
>
> Just before he died, he summoned several friends and said he had a last request. He wanted to be buried with all his clothes on. Even the neck scarf. They agreed, but as soon as he’d passed away, they whipped them off. Well, actually the undertaker removed them, prior to washing and embalming the body, while the friends observed. On Dr. Wilson’s neck was a long, ugly scar, apparently from a sword or knife. In the calf of one leg was what appeared to be an old bullet wound. That leg was withered and shorter than the other, a fact he’d covered up by inserting a thick wedge of cork in his shoe and refusing to limp. (So, perhaps it was more than the toddies that sometimes influenced his equilibrium.)
>
> All this got around rapidly, including to the sheriff’s office. The sheriff studied his list of wanted men and found that one John Doherty, who had escaped the law in Ireland in 1818 and was known to be living somewhere in America, exactly fit Dr. Wilson’s description, even to the scars and the cork heel.
>
> So it would appear that Doc Wilson practiced medicine in Vermont for twenty-nine years without a license and under an alias. He was actually John Doherty, one of the most feared highwaymen in Britain during the early nineteenth century. Because of his lightning raids, in which he was always courteous, never robbed women, and so on, he became known as Captain Thunderbolt. He liked the name and usually told his victims that they had the distinction of being robbed “by none other than Captain Thunderbolt.”
>
> When he teamed up with a Michael Martin, a young thug from Kilkenny, he named him Captain Lightfoot. Martin escaped to America at about the same time as “Doc Wilson” did, but one version of the legend says they never got together in this country. Another says they both taught school in the Round Schoolhouse in Brookline, Vermont. Carl Hardwood of Baldwinville, Massachusetts, wrote in 1965 that his mother remembered “two men teachers who taught at the Round Schoolhouse who came over to the United States from England to escape prosecution for some crimes.” He went on to say that one had the nickname “Thunderbolt” and the other stayed only a few weeks.
>
> At any rate, Martin returned to a life of crime, was arrested in Springfield, Massachusetts, was tried, convicted, and hanged about 1821. It was Martin who, just before his execution, gave the full description of his former partner, Captain Thunderbolt, who by then was a simple, kindly, somewhat overdressed country doctor quietly practicing his medicine in Dummerston and falling down on his face at the Saturday night dances.
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/2 "2014-08-31T19:30:22Z")
A schoolhouse figures prominently in the movie, although in a peculiar way. Clint Eastwood is a bank robber who retired after a major failure. A lot of the above resonates with my dim recollection of the movie’s exact progression. I would not be surprised if the film is meant to be a modern-day retelling of the legendary form of the two men’s tales.
Went to watch it the other night but it wasn’t on any of the free services. Might pony up for a rental tonight, although the family gets tired of watching Dad’s old movies. 😕
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/3 "2014-08-31T19:37:49Z")
Missed the edit: IMDb trivia says Cimino was influenced by an earlier film about the Irish bandits, _Captain Thunderbolt_.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/4 "2014-09-01T04:48:05Z")
I remember there being a big fucking cannon in the movie.
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### Author:  [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/5 "2014-09-01T06:01:37Z")
I liked that movie. The settings and cinematography, the daring heist that goes wrong, a young Jeff Bridges, and the red Cadillac convertible. Not a great movie, but I liked it.
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### Author:  [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/6 "2014-09-01T13:35:05Z")
Interesting history Johnny.
Maybe not a great movie but -
Clint Eastwood
Jeff Bridges
George Kennedy
Gary Busey
Geoffry Lewis
Catherine Bach
I really like it and will always watch it when it comes on.
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/7 "2014-09-01T13:40:18Z")
Watched it last night. It holds up well but will bore anyone not into '70s film esthetics and pacing.
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### Author:  [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/8 "2014-09-01T13:47:32Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#):
>
> Watched it last night. It holds up well but will bore anyone not into '70s film esthetics and pacing.
True enough. I last saw it a year or two ago and I’ll go with that, **AB**.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/9 "2014-09-01T13:54:58Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#):
>
> Watched it last night. It holds up well but will bore anyone not into '70s film esthetics and pacing.
Also agree. The film wouldn’t be made like that now.
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/10 "2014-09-01T14:12:18Z")
I am not sure how I would view it had I not seen it at least twice in early days.
I particularly found George Kennedy’s character thinly drawn… his entire function was to go into a rage and screw things up at intervals.
It is, however, one of the very few movies I know of to treat a beating realistically.
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### Author:  [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/11 "2014-09-01T14:13:21Z")
Around the time I last saw the movie, a year or two ago, I looked up where some of its scenes were filmed and flagged these, for just in case my travels bring me nearby and I wanted to check any of them out. Like I said, I liked its cinematography and settings.
These are from my “in case I visit western Montana” file:
The opening scene where Clint’s preacher character is leading his congregation in worship was filmed in Hobson, MT.
Wikipedia page: [Hobson, Montana - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson,_Montana)
The church, St. John’s Lutheran Church Hobson, MT:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=St.+John’s+Lutheran+Church+Hobson,+MT&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=UFqxUebtFMrPqgG7u4GYBA&ved=0CAoQ\_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=644&gws\_rd=ssl](https://www.google.com/search?q=St.+John's+Lutheran+Church+Hobson,+MT&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=UFqxUebtFMrPqgG7u4GYBA&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=644&gws_rd=ssl)
IIRC, the church was moved to Troy, MT:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=Door+of+Hope+Church+217+Mineral+Ave,+Troy,+MT&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&gws\_rd=ssl](https://www.google.com/search?q=Door+of+Hope+Church+217+Mineral+Ave,+Troy,+MT&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&gws_rd=ssl)
Images of that church in Troy:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=Door+of+Hope+Church+217+Mineral+Ave,+Troy,+MT&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=M3sEVIzoKMjxgwTw5IHgAw&ved=0CAsQ\_AUoBA&biw=1024&bih=648](https://www.google.com/search?q=Door+of+Hope+Church+217+Mineral+Ave,+Troy,+MT&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=M3sEVIzoKMjxgwTw5IHgAw&ved=0CAsQ_AUoBA&biw=1024&bih=648)
The old one-room schoolhouse (when they finally find it) is, or at one time was, south of Great Falls on Interstate 15 near exit 240.
Search page with that text, but results not likely relevant:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=The+old+one-room+schoolhouse+(when+they+finally+find+it)+is+south+of+Great+Falls+on+Interstate+15+near+exit+240.&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&gws\_rd=ssl](https://www.google.com/search?q=The+old+one-room+schoolhouse+(when+they+finally+find+it)+is+south+of+Great+Falls+on+Interstate+15+near+exit+240.&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&gws_rd=ssl)
Wikipedia’s page on film locations:
> **[Thunderbolt and Lightfoot](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_and_Lightfoot#Shooting)**
>
> Thunderbolt and Lightfoot is a 1974 American crime comedy film written and directed by Michael Cimino and starring Clint Eastwood, Jeff Bridges, George Kennedy and Geoffrey Lewis. The film follows John "Thunderbolt" Doherty, a disguised preacher who is almost assassinated, before being unintentionally rescued by a young car thief, named "Lightfoot", who partners with him in a series of thefts. It is soon discovered that "Thunderbolt" is a fugitive bank robber who is being hunted by his former
> [@](#):
>
> Although Eastwood generally refused to spend much time in scouting for locations, particularly unfamiliar ones, Cimino and Eastwood’s producer Robert Daley traveled extensively around the Big Sky Country in Montana for thousands of miles and eventually decided on the Great Falls area and to shoot the film in the towns of Ulm, Hobson, Fort Benton, Augusta and Choteau and surrounding mountainous countryside. The film was shot in 47 days from July to September 1973. It was filmed in Fort Benton, Wolf Creek, Great Falls, and Hobson. St. John’s Lutheran Church in Hobson was used for the opening scene.
The lake scene was at Diversion Lake, Lewis and Clark National Forest, Augusta, Montana, USA (search with that text):
[https://www.google.com/search?q=Diversion+Lake,+Lewis+and+Clark+National+Forest,+Augusta,+Montana,+USA&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&gws\_rd=ssl](https://www.google.com/search?q=Diversion+Lake,+Lewis+and+Clark+National+Forest,+Augusta,+Montana,+USA&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&gws_rd=ssl)
That’s it. I have many such files, for different reasons. There’s gotta be a site where I can store my bucket list places-to-visit (including mini buckets like these), right?
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/12 "2014-09-01T14:47:58Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#):
>
> Watched it last night. It holds up well but will bore anyone not into '70s film esthetics and pacing.
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Also agree. The film wouldn’t be made like that now.
I started watching [del]_Vaginal Misery Tour_[/del] _Magical Mystery Tour_ last night and noted the '60s ‘psychedelic’ style. I wondered if Millennials would know why it was shot like that, and if they’d sit through it. (I didn’t watch it. I recorded it and will watch it later.)
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/13 "2014-09-01T15:19:47Z")
I’m having some problems with the story in the OP. I’m pretty sure they weren’t embalming people in 1847 here in the United States. I’m also pretty sure you didn’t need a license to practice medicine either.
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/14 "2014-09-01T15:41:45Z")
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> I’m having some problems with the story in the OP. I’m pretty sure they weren’t embalming people in 1847 here in the United States. I’m also pretty sure you didn’t need a license to practice medicine either.
It was the middle of the Victorian era, not the middle ages. Doctors were expected to have at least a B.M. or other substantial formal training, although true M.D.s might have been more common in cities, hospitals and universities. There were probably doctors in the west who were more combat surgeons, with fairly limited and specialized training, but a small town in Oklahoma Territory would take what it could get.
As for embalming… you’ve heard of those wacky Egyptians, from the Extremely Early Wild West era? 🙂 The practice has changed and evolved and there are different techniques depending on training and available materials, but the general process of preparing a body for display and minimal rot prevention is called “embalming” whether it means pumping the torso full of alcohol or a full bloodletting/formaldehyde replacement.
(And yes, I know the modern industry has a dozen terms for the various steps… but in them thar days, it was “undertaking,” now called “embalming.”)
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/15 "2014-09-01T16:50:34Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#):
>
> It was the middle of the Victorian era, not the middle ages.
Throughout most of the 19th century you did not need a license to practice medicine in the United States. According to the article linked the physician died in 1847. The AMA was actually established in that very year and what we recognize as modern medical practice really didn’t begin until after the Civil War.
> [@](#):
>
> As for embalming… you’ve heard of those wacky Egyptians, from the Extremely Early Wild West era?
Embalming was not a common funerary practice in the United States in the 1840s. I have no doubt that they knew how to preserve a body but doing so would have been unusual for the time period.
So I’m skeptical about the article for two reasons. First, because it made a big deal out of him practicing medicine without a license when that wasn’t a big deal in the 19th century. Second, mentioning that he was embalmed when it was an uncommon practice.
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thunderbolt-and-lightfoot/697067/16 "2014-09-01T16:59:43Z")
It’s possible that an internet blog article by an apparent fan historian has an error or two. 🙂
But I still think you’re dismissing too much for the wrong reasons. There have been formally educated and licensed physicians since at least the 1600s, and while the mid-19th century US might have had relaxed and patchwork standards, I don’t think just anyone could hang out a shingle with impunity, or did within established towns and cities.
And I’m willing to read “embalming” in that original article as “preparing the body for display and burial,” no matter what technical steps might have been used. They did things like gluing the eyes and mouth shut even in much earlier eras.
But it is a reference-free blog entry. Who knows the actual truth content.