# Thundercats Mafia Gameplay Thread \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 21, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228 "2011-04-21T14:28:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/361 "2011-05-02T19:53:29Z")
Current vote tallies (with voter(s), in chronological order): **special ed: 1 (Pleonast) Red Skeezix: 1 (Hirka T’Bawa)** Votes will be final when Day Three ends on Thursday, 5/5 at 11am CST. Votes cast today, by player (in post number): 1. Astral Rejection 2. Pleonast - special ed (360) 3. Hirka T’Bawa - Red Skeezix (356) 4. Mahaloth 5. Normal Phase 6. special ed 7. Red Skeezix 8. Jimmy Chitwood 9. Tom Scud 10. Inner Stickler ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/362 "2011-05-03T00:26:10Z")
**Hirka T’Bawa** : Voting the leader at the last second is it? Funny, I wasn’t even the last voter. Well, had I not voted giraffe, then it would have been ed on the block? Would that have been better or worse? I dunno. The lynch was a close one, so better to vote, and at least have something to be held accountable for, than to just be silent. **Pleo** : Participation doesn’t get much worse than mine yesterday. So yeah, you’re right. Still getting caught up on yesterDay, but I’m casting a hairy eyeball at Astral. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/363 "2011-05-03T00:30:29Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Still getting caught up on yesterDay, but I’m casting a hairy eyeball at Astral. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/364 "2011-05-03T02:30:41Z")
K, so here is what we “know”. I say “know” because of the potential godfather and the fact that none of you can be sure I’m Lion-O(uh, though no counterclaim makes it fairly obvious I am). Town: Mahaloth Jimmy Chitwood Tom Scud Everyone else: Astral Rejection Pleonast Hirka T’Bawa Normal Phase special ed Red Skeezix Inner Stickler We’re getting our butts kicked here. Four town dead in a row is a total decimation in a game this size. Not sure what to do, though. Mass claim? Does that help us? Or just expose us and end the game? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/365 "2011-05-03T13:53:44Z")
Don’t like the idea of a mass claim. Currently majorly suspicious of Ed and skeezix; will try to re-read Ed today (skeez will take like 3 minutes total) and see if anything shakes loose. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/366 "2011-05-03T14:58:04Z")
Well, the upside is there’s not a whole lot of people left to examine (and most of them haven’t talked much). Inner Stickler Zeriel/Hirka Red Skeezix Ed. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/367 "2011-05-03T16:08:07Z")
**Vote Ed** ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/368 "2011-05-03T16:29:02Z")
**Normal** is there any reason you left me off your list? **Mahaloth** , you’re as confirmed as is possible at this point, so you don’t need to give us reasons for your vote. But it would be nice to have your thoughts so that when you turn up dead, we’ll have still have some honest analysis to consider. Of course, there’s a long list of players who need to contribute something. Get with it! Even in the worst case, we’re not at lynch or lose yet. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/369 "2011-05-03T16:44:05Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Even in the worst case, we’re not at lynch or lose yet. Actually, I’m not certain about this. **Moderator, is the game over if at Dawn there are an equal number of town and scum? Or, must the scum outnumber us?** ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/370 "2011-05-03T17:00:36Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Actually, I’m not certain about this. > > **Moderator, is the game over if at Dawn there are an equal number of town and scum? Or, must the scum outnumber us?** Equal numbers, should they occur, is still a scum win. Equal numbers not causing a win puts in the potential for players to force the outcome of the game to a die roll, which I think most people will find frustrating and unsatisfying. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/371 "2011-05-03T17:15:30Z")
Fabulous. @ Pleo: I left you and Astral off because I already looked at you yesterday. Here’s the first I haven’t (Inner): 127 – hiya 203 – not getting involved in Pleo discussion, done that too often. Doesn’t like mahaloth’s rebuttal to the votes on him about the Tom thing. Mentions a scumdar comment and vote, presumably from Maha, that I don’t remember the context of; says it looks like scum maha is trying to deflect attention from himself by accusing others of same thing he’s doing. Inner, what were you talking about with the scumdar thing? Not a fan of the not commenting, but it’s probably a null tell. I have no problem with the suspicion on Maha for the first reason mentioned and need context for the second. 240 – jumping into Pleo fray after all on opposite side from usual. Doesn’t see Pleo as trying the ploy that Jimmy suggests; he’s just a huge fan of multivoting. Jimmy assuming anti-town, doesn’t see evidence, maybe some spinning of motives. Can’t fault the content of this vote even in light of Maha’s investigation. I do want to know what happened to Inner’s suspicion of Mahaloth (this was well prior to Mahaloth’s role reveal, and even to Ed’s). 242 – response to Jimmy asking if we should all just be multivoting, says doesn’t see the point, Jimmy not scummy for trying to get Pleo to stop, scummy b/c that’s the reason he was voting for him. Scum don’t’ care about cases as long as they get someone lynched. That’s it (except for a joky comment on skimming I left out somewhere), no comments through the latter part of the day when Ed and then Maha were in trouble, nor when Giraffe was lynched, and I think nothing yet today. All of Inner’s sins are sins of omission (not talking about Maha when he voted Jimmy, not being around at critical periods). If Jimmy is in fact town, then Inner being third on the bandwagon behind Maha and me could be scum motivated; I don’t think Maha’s bandwagon was going anywhere that early in the day. I really want Inner to talk more. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/372 "2011-05-03T17:36:24Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > Equal numbers, should they occur, is still a scum win. Equal numbers not causing a win puts in the potential for players to force the outcome of the game to a die roll, which I think most people will find frustrating and unsatisfying. Well, I would be happy to trade an instant loss for a die roll, but I suppose scum see it differently. Given this, it looks like we are at lynch or lose if there are four scum. Thinking about a mass claim… The costs are that Panthro (protector) and Wilykit/kat (death-linked masons) would be exposed. It seems we may not have Panthro, since they didn’t protect **Mahaloth** (or am I misunderstanding what the mod said about that?). We don’t want to expose the Wilykitkats, since they’d be a double kill for the scum. But if we are at lynch or lose, none of that matters. If we’re not at lynch or lose, while a mass claim may help us get scum now, we likely hamper our future efforts by exposing power roles. So, the big question is: 3 or 4 scum? **Mahaloth** , your thoughts on this are especially important. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/373 "2011-05-03T17:39:58Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > There’s no sign in the write-up that he was protecting anyone, though. Would there be? I think _pace_ **Tom** ’s opinion that it was unlikely, there’s probably a good chance that **fubbleskag** was targeted directly. Otherwise what was **Panthro** doing that **fubbleskag** ’s protection was needed? Not that it matters in the long run, I suppose. [QUOTE=Pleonast] I’m assuming this is why Jimmy ended up voting for Giraffe, because the actual vote post has nothing. I’d like a better explanation because this one is lacking. What do you refer to by “pushing on increasingly diminishing returns” specifically? [/QUOTE] Yeah, I wasn’t very clear about that. I meant that **Giraffe** had originally switched his vote because **ed** mentioned proboards. Later he added that the claim sounded awkward, and then later added the bit about lying about being in the lead, but those seemed very much after-the-fact. I meant that it seemed like he put his vote first, and then kept piling things on top even though they were less and less damning, in my eyes. Those were the diminishing returns – I thought his first reason wasn’t that compelling, and that **ed** actually capably responded to it (which people don’t always do), but that **Giraffe** only got more convinced by that. That seemed like better evidence than **ed** acting weird, so that’s the direction I tried to shift things. It looks like a much worse idea now that we know **Giraffe** was town and don’t know about **ed** , and I’m cool being accountable for that. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/374 "2011-05-03T17:41:58Z")
**vote ed** - on a reread, I basically agree with Pleo; Ed hasn’t explained his votes at all well and hasn’t done much else aside from his momentary “look at me” silliness on Day 2 which didn’t really contribute much of anything. I’m also suspicious of **Red** , who could be playing his scum-style lurker game but also had a legit excuse about not being able to play from work; but it seems likely to me that if **Red** is scum, **ed** is also scum. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/375 "2011-05-03T17:43:19Z")
Whoops, separate line **vote ed** ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/376 "2011-05-03T17:48:57Z")
Current vote tallies (with voter(s), in chronological order): **special ed: 3 (Pleonast, Mahaloth, Tom Scud) Red Skeezix: 1 (Hirka T’Bawa)** Votes will be final when Day Three ends on Thursday, 5/5 at 11am CST. Votes cast today, by player (in post number): 1. Astral Rejection 2. Pleonast - special ed (360) 3. Hirka T’Bawa - Red Skeezix (356) 4. Mahaloth - special ed (367) 5. Normal Phase 6. special ed 7. Red Skeezix 8. Jimmy Chitwood 9. Tom Scud - special ed (374) 10. Inner Stickler ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/377 "2011-05-03T17:49:07Z")
No promises, but I’m going to try to do a Cookies-style reread starting from the point where Pleo, Ed, and Jimmy were tied at 3 (assume Pleo is scum, then reread assuming ed is scum, then reread assuming Jimmy is the godfather). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/378 "2011-05-03T18:02:10Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I’m also suspicious of **Red** , who could be playing his scum-style lurker game but also had a legit excuse about not being able to play from work; but it seems likely to me that if **Red** is scum, **ed** is also scum. Withdrawing this, also: **unvote** From the timing, a scum **Red** could as easily have been protecting a theoretical Godfather Jimmy as a theoretical scum ed; I had the order of his vote and **fubble’s** mixed up in my head. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/379 "2011-05-03T20:54:26Z")
So. Hirka/Zeriel. First, Zeriel’s entire contribution that didn’t involve sniping at Pleo for his multivote: > [@Zeriel](#): > > Ugh, been holding off on reading the thread until there was something here. > > Initial vote: vote Tom Scud for a blatantly anti-town claiming plan, especially with his additional comments about trusting earlier claims and ostensibly not considering the idea of scum cover identities. > > Also, special, I’m’a slap you with a trout. > > Let’s pretend we already had the drawn-out argument over whether a on-its-face potentially valid plan that is actually pretty scum-favoring is a voteable offense. Since we did. And the latter position caught you in that game. 😉 > [@Zeriel](#): > > In other words, the Unique Vanilla claim plan gives a tiny advantage if there are three scum and fewer than three UVs, and a tiny detriment if there are 4 UVs, assuming random play on all parts and that scum can’t meaningfully influence the town vote. Those are both, historically, very bad assumptions. > > I also don’t think we can assume that we have 3 scum. I have seen games with worse balance than 4/14 scum, and that doesn’t even count the idea that we have no idea what power roles might be out there. In my opinion, any strategy that implicitly or explicitly depends on having 3 scum, prior to our definitive knowledge of how many scum there actually are, is prima fascie an anti-town plan. Let me just say here that I think we would have been in a much better situation right now if Giraffe and Wolverine (and Ed) had claimed on Day 1. Zeriel’s claim that the math totally proves him right is complete bs, as far as I can tell. I wish I’d been more aggressive about this on Day 1. > [@Zeriel](#): > > [to Astral]While there’s nothing necessarily wrong with throwing useful thoughts out at the end of the day, there’s equally something to be said for choosing tactical reveals of suspicions and voting plans. > > Of course, unless it’s mathematically proven to be an “all roads lead to victory” move for town, I’m categorically opposed to policy-based strategies and categorically opposed to any plan that has no enforcement provisions: For example, if your plan WAS good, how would you have enforced compliance? Would you have considered people who did not follow your plan scummy? This kind of looks like it’s saying something, but really, what is it saying? And that’s it for Zeriel. On to Hirka - first, an intro post, then: > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Ok, let me see if I can make some sense of what is going on before I go to work today… Here is the final voting of day 1. > > I don’t believe **Astral Rejection** is scum, due to his little mind hickup, so I’m giving him town cred. I also don’t believe **Pleonast** is scum, because even though his little multivoting is confusing, and scummy, (specially for someone new to the game), I don’t think it is something scum would do to bring attention to himself. > > Ok, now that I know who I’m not voting for, I need to figure out who I am voting for… I agree with the hypothesis that one of the voters on **glowacks** was probably scum, I don’t think it is **Giraffe** for the sole reason he did the math, if it truly was a pro-scum idea, and he is scum, he would have just not posted the math. > > **Normal Phase** ’s activity at the end of the day, and his unneeded vote on Glo seems scummy, but, it was Easter Weekend. I know how busy everyone was. So, I’m going to give him a pass on it. > > That leaves **Red Skeezix** and **Special Ed** , I didn’t like Ed’s posts that didn’t make sense, and he voted on Glo for a weak reason, while being the one that tilted the scales towards Glo’s lynching… So, for now, > > Vote Special Ed > > Now, I might change that later on depending on what everyone else does the rest of this days, but just in case I don’t get a chance to post again, I wanted to get a vote out. That’s not a bad vote post > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > I’m on my phone posting this, so forgive any typos, and this will be quick to get my thoughts down. > > I feel red skeezix is acing scummy by voting for the vote leader, with no explination why, and waiting to the last seconds. > vote red skeezix That’s reasonable, and if Hirka had made more than 2 posts all day, I wouldn’t be feeling suspicious. As it stands, his minimal contribution and some festering suspicion of Zeriel is starting to make me wonder if ed and maybe Red are town after all. No vote yet. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/380 "2011-05-03T21:00:24Z")
And yeah, I’d love to hear from Hirka, Inner, and Red on what they think about how yesterday’s lynch went down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228.md?page=20)