# Thundercats Mafia Gameplay Thread \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 21, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228 "2011-04-21T14:28:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/481 "2011-05-09T18:51:04Z")
I’ve been thinking about a mass claim, which is effectively a question of whether or not the protector should claim. And I’m not sure what the town gains from it. Without the claim, scum have a larger pool of targets to find them. And they can safely protect **Mahaloth**. If the lynch starts to head towards them, they can claim. If the protector claims, we get a guessing game (protect investigator or protector?) between them and scum. How’s that helpful? And I’m not sure what a mass claim would do for us. Personally, I’d leave the decision up to the protector and/or **Mahaloth**. But I think an open investigator and hidden protector, with no scum blockers, is as good a situation as we can get. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/482 "2011-05-09T19:17:01Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > So, we’re either at 4 vs 3 and lynch or lose, or 5 vs 2 and have one spare mislynch. We each basically have to look at the six other players and find 2 or 3 scum. I won’t be on much over the weekend, but I’ll put my initial thoughts out. > > 1. [del]Zeriel[/del] Sub: **Hirka T’Bawa** > I’m slightly more suspicious than not, but not a lot I can point to as why. Besides their Day One vote for lousy reasons, their agreement with my assessment of **ed** and **Red** as likely scum bugs me. It feels like scum playing it safe. > > 2. **Mahaloth** > Confirmed and should not be on anyone’s lynch list. Besides the uncounterclaimed role, the lynch leadership on **Inner** is a major victory for us. However, there is a tiny chance that they are scum and we have no investigator (extra tiny because our masons were double-killed, and even tinier if we lynch a godfather). I expect this will be resolved by their death before we need to seriously consider the possibility. But if we get down to 3 players and **Mahaloth** is still alive and no godfather has been found, do not discount it completely. I think we can discount it. The godfather is the only role that the ruleset doesn’t qualify in any way as “may be present” or some such. In my mind the only caveat here has been whether the godfather’s presence MUST have been intended to be _as a godfather_, since the town will also learn the number of scum remaining when the godfather is dead. So there is a godfather function that is independent of the presence or absence of Lion-O. That said, Mahaloth yanked the Inner Stickler lynch essentially out of nowhere, and what’s the motive for that? He really didn’t need any _more_ town cred. Maybe if there are only three scum, hence probably no Panthro, and he runs into WIFOM as to why he’s still alive? But eh, it’s a mess. As far as I’m concerned if Mahaloth is scum, congrats, you did awesome. > [@](#): > > 1. **Normal Phase** > Expressed suspicion on **Inner** before **Mahaloth** started pushing that lynch. Also made decent case against **Red**. Nothing they’ve done has really stood out as suspicious. Slight town feel overall. If we don’t get a scum result, I hope **Mahaloth** investigated them, just so we can focus on the (in my opinion) more likely scum. This pings me slightly. I’d think you’d want to confirm a less-likely town more urgently than you’d want to confirm a more-likely one. [quote] > [@](#): > > 1. **special ed** > Has yet to cast a vote with any case behind it. Nor any analysis. While YesterDay netted us scum, the voting was a give-me to the other scum. Even **Red** , who’s been participating minimally managed to make some comments about who they felt were suspicious. Not **ed**. I’m not sure what else to say, I don’t see anything pro-town about them this game. > vote special ed I don’t even know what to say about Ed at this point. I see he’s got four votes. I don’t know what the heck he was thinking to accomplish if he is scum, acting like this. Just to go under my “weird is not scummy” radar, at the cost of triggering everyone else’s? I doubt it. The only thing I can think of is if you are also scum, and all of this was intended to bolster your credentials. It would make some sense of Inner’s vote for Jimmy (if it wasn’t just "the case against Mahaloth is going nowhere, what’s up next?), since IIRC both of you were in some trouble at that point. I have one small ping on Ed independent of his crappy unsupported votes, and that’s when he said he just wasn’t all that into this game. I’ve seen that a few times before from scum having issues. It’s just not much. > [@](#): > > 1. **Red Skeezix** > Their participation YesterDay makes me think they might be town, so not sharing the top of the list with **ed** at the moment for me. I’m still highly skeptical, though. Where did you say anything skeptical about Red? > [@](#): > > 1. [del]pedescribe [/del] Sub: **Jimmy Chitwood** > I was not getting scummy feel from them, despite their poor attack on me. With the investigation result, not on the lynch list until we’re down to finding the godfather. > > In summary: > I really think we need to lynch **ed**. No way they’re not scum. And I think **Red** and/or **Hirka** are the remaining scum. It’ll have to be a good case on **Normal** for me to vote that way. I’m not feeling the lynch on **Jimmy** until we’re down to the godfather. And I won’t even consider voting for **Mahaloth** until we’re at 3-handed. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/483 "2011-05-09T19:27:41Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Where did you say anything skeptical about Red? Back in [post 360](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13754048&postcount=360) where I “voted” for them for lousy participation. (I guess I should’ve kept my alternate votes in blue.) Are you going to vote for anyone, or stay wishy-washy? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/484 "2011-05-09T19:55:28Z")
> [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Getting ready to go out with my wife to dinner and a movie, so probably won’t have a chance to post again tonight, and if I do it would be from my phone. So, let me get my thoughts down now. > > I’m thinking we have 2 scum left. I agree with Normal’s comment yesterday that there were be 4 if we had panthro, but only 3 if no panthro. Based off the death of the martyr after Mahaloth claim, and Fluiddruids comments, I don’t think we have panthro, so only 2 scum remaining. Which comments by fluid? * * * Your next comment on this: > [@](#): > > I don’t know, if I was scum, (though, I’m not), I would think that as soon as the investigator was claimed, that would be the first target. Why if someone claimed as investigator would he not die the next night? The only reason I can suspect is that the claimer was protected even by a martyr (which seems to be), or he was scum thinking there wasn’t an investigator in the game. I really doubt he is scum, since his claims have been positive so far. He claimed Tom was town, he was a mason and died… He claimed you were town (which of course I assume, but you never know…), and of course he claimed me. Of which I know 100% I’m town… And since I’m new, I’ve never played before, so I don’t think I would know how to play scum even if I was selected as Mam-Ra… > > So, why wouldn’t they try killing him when he claims? Number one reason why scum do not do that: they believe there is a protector. I just sat here for five minutes trying to work out the possibilities based on what the scum might think in a three-player vs four-player situation and ultimately I can’t do it. Clearly they would be more likely to shoot at Mahaloth directly (in this case hitting fubbles instead) if they believe Panthro is not in the game (in itself more likely if three scum than four). It’s just you can’t tell from the write-up if that’s what happened. From my perspective it seems more likely than not (unless Pleo is bussing Ed), but I don’t see yours. > [@](#): > > I’m really doubting we have a panthro. > > So, I’m willing to bet there is no panthro, and we only have 2 scum left (with the one killed)… And honestly, I think this is pretty obvious, and you’re defense otherwise makes me think you might be the godfather… What about Inner’s vote on Jimmy? * * * > [@](#): > > I haven’t gotten a scum vibe from Normal either, and have gotten a slight town vibe. So, at this point I’m not going to vote for him either, unless someone makes a really REALLY good case for him I’m a she. > [@](#): > > Ed has looked scummy to me also, and I still agree with Giraffe’s comment on day 2 that there was at least one scum on the Glo lynch. Ed and Red have both voted for the town lynches, so they are at the top of my list. The only thing that gives me a slight pause on a Ed lynch is his “claim” to be Tygra, which was never counter-claimed… However, that could just as easily been a gamble by a godfather that there wasn’t a “Tygra” in the game, knowing that if he was investigated he would show as trustworthy. It’s possible. The comment by Jimmy a bit below that Ed’s behavior might actually make sense for a godfather is the first argument against him that makes sense to me. > [@](#): > > Right now, Red is the top of my list, besides the fact that he has voted for both the town lynches, his argument rebutting my voting for him yesterday seemed very weak to me, and as Normal said, his argument is a straw man. All I can say at this point is that if Red is scum and Ed is not, I get a cupcake at the end of the game or when I get killed, whichever comes first. > [@](#): > > I don’t have much opinion on Jimmy either way, and since he investigated town, I’m not going to give him much thought for now. I’d like you to answer the question above, though. (snip some) ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/485 "2011-05-09T19:56:32Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Back in [post 360](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13754048&postcount=360) where I “voted” for them for lousy participation. (I guess I should’ve kept my alternate votes in blue.) > > Are you going to vote for anyone, or stay wishy-washy? Bite me. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/486 "2011-05-09T20:00:46Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’ve been thinking about a mass claim, which is effectively a question of whether or not the protector should claim. And I’m not sure what the town gains from it. Without the claim, scum have a larger pool of targets to find them. And they can safely protect **Mahaloth**. If the lynch starts to head towards them, they can claim. > > If the protector claims, we get a guessing game (protect investigator or protector?) between them and scum. How’s that helpful? > > And I’m not sure what a mass claim would do for us. > > Personally, I’d leave the decision up to the protector and/or **Mahaloth**. But I think an open investigator and hidden protector, with no scum blockers, is as good a situation as we can get. This does seem to make sense, and I actually agree with it. However, if I’m lynched, there will only be 3 univestigated players. Mahaloth investigates 1 of them. That leaves 2. If the Scum kill 1 (protector) then we lynch the other one toMorrow. Mahaloth’s job is complete. If the Scum don’t kill 1 of the 2, we still lynch one of them and we’ll know about the thrid. IOf course, I understand from your point of view there might be 3 Scum and I’m one of them. However, if there are 3 Scum, the game is over when I’m lynched. I know this. I don’t expect you to. Only what if there is no protector and mahaloth has been playing us for a fool? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/487 "2011-05-09T20:18:54Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Given that we have 2 investigations and 4 unknowns (at least from the general perspective). > > I was thinking about a mass claim, but that would likely only expose pantrho. Which would be enlightening if they are amongst the unconfirmed but harmful if they are in the investigated. > > So, i’m going with my suspicions based on the fubbleskag kill. I think that makes sense for a scum kill that night if Special Ed is scum. > > vote Special Ed Gah, I thought I had you dead to rights for a second. I thought there was no halfway plausible four-scum scenario that included Ed but didn’t include you (both your statements contain assumptions that are more likely to belong to four scum than to three), but there is one from a general perspective: Ed, me and Hirka (and Inner). From a later comment in response to Hirka: > [@](#): > > Because scum can ill afford not killing during the night. (A missed kill counts as an extra .5 mislynch for town) Shooting at the person most likely to be protected is playing a big risk. Only if the scum have reason to think Panthro is actually in the game, and as far as I can tell there is just no way to figure that out right now independent of knowledge of the number of scum. You all but accuse Hirka of PIS in your short previous post that I left out, but you are almost as PIS-y as he is with the assumptions over and over that Panthro is in, and you haven’t been investigated as town. > [@](#): > > Plus, considering that there’s a second killer (possibly a one time scum kill, that’s what i’m thinking atm, but I need to reread the rules because I don’t remember if one was listed as a role possibility, although I can’t see why a town vig would shoot at a claimed mason) means it’s more likely that there is a panthro in the game. This has got to be deliberate obfuscation. You’re a good player; how can you forget half the possible roles in the game? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/488 "2011-05-09T20:27:34Z")
**vote: Red Skeezix** May as well go with my top candidate under the circumstances. For whatever it’s worth, I have everyone else as: Pleonast (the goading of me today is pushing him up again) \> Ed (I understand the case, he’s just very nicely inside my blind spot if scum) \> Hirka (town investigation, no strong pings) \> Jimmy (town investigation, inner vote) \> Mahaloth (Inner lynch; godfather almost if not quite demands Lion-O, making a claim insanely risky). ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/489 "2011-05-09T21:39:40Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’ve been thinking about a mass claim, which is effectively a question of whether or not the protector should claim. And I’m not sure what the town gains from it. Without the claim, scum have a larger pool of targets to find them. And they can safely protect **Mahaloth**. If the lynch starts to head towards them, they can claim. > > If the protector claims, we get a guessing game (protect investigator or protector?) between them and scum. How’s that helpful? > > And I’m not sure what a mass claim would do for us. > > Personally, I’d leave the decision up to the protector and/or **Mahaloth**. But I think an open investigator and hidden protector, with no scum blockers, is as good a situation as we can get. Protector revealing would open up some more balanced WIFOM possibilities against the scum, that’s the only benefit I can think of. With a hidden protector there’s really no incentive to protect anyone but Mahaloth. It’s probably not worth it. And what if there is none? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/490 "2011-05-09T21:48:40Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Only what if there is no protector and mahaloth has been playing us for a fool? Are you serious? Of all possible complications, you pick that one? Where’s the connection? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/491 "2011-05-09T21:52:04Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Are you serious? Of all possible complications, you pick that one? Where’s the connection? No, it’s just the one that stands out to me as both brilliant and terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/492 "2011-05-09T22:03:44Z")
The only incentive I think of for the protector to claim (If i’m reading the tea leaves right, there is one) is to reduce the completely unknown pool by 1. The benefit of this is dubious at this point however, and would in my estimation be better done tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/493 "2011-05-09T22:13:14Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Which comments by fluid? This one: > [@fluiddruid](#): > > No. “If the player is Lion-O, Snarf will die in Lion-O’s place”; Panthro’s ability “protect\ them \ from being targeted by a night kill”. If there’s no opportunity for one’s death, there’s no opportunity to die in one’s place. So I took that to mean he wasn’t protected by panthro. Though, y’all have made some good comments that they might not have targeted Mahaloth thinking that he might be protected, and might have just gotten the martyr by pure luck. I didn’t even think of that possibility. First game ever, never played scum, so didn’t think how tricky they could be. That would also explain why the scum went after the masons, and not Mahaloth last night, I just assumed it was because they would get two town, and that it was worth more to them then the investigator. But, they might have done it since they also expected Mahaloth to be protected, and the masons not. > [@](#): > > What about Inner’s vote on Jimmy? Totally forgot about that… That’s what I get for posting drunk, things like that slip my mind. > [@](#): > > I’m a she. Sorry, I sit corrected. (snip some) [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/494 "2011-05-09T22:17:25Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > The only incentive I think of for the protector to claim (If i’m reading the tea leaves right, there is one) is to reduce the completely unknown pool by 1. The benefit of this is dubious at this point however, and would in my estimation be better done tomorrow. This is a good point. However toMorrow is lynch or lose at best, though Town isn’t currently in a position to know that. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/495 "2011-05-10T12:24:43Z")
I commend the scum if they win. They laid low and slid this one out, a fairly good strategy for a small game. Here is hoping we got lucky and hit scum again. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/496 "2011-05-10T14:26:30Z")
**special ed - 4 (Pleonast, Red Skeezix, Mahaloth, Hirka T’Bawa, Jimmy Chitwood)** Normal Phase - 1 (special ed) Red Skeezix - 1 (Normal Phase) Votes are final when Day Four ends today at 11am CST, about 90 minutes from now. 1. Pleonast - special ed (458) 2. Hirka T’Bawa - [del]Red Skeezix[/del] (459/468); special ed (468) 3. Mahaloth - special ed (466) 4. Normal Phase - Red Skeezix (488) 5. special ed - Normal Phase (477) 6. Red Skeezix - special ed (464) 7. Jimmy Chitwood - special ed (476) ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/497 "2011-05-10T15:09:36Z")
I guess I’d better change. **unvote** **vote: Special Ed** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/498 "2011-05-10T16:14:39Z")
I came back to look for your apologies, but I must be early. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/499 "2011-05-10T16:45:41Z")
Yeah, just waiting for the reveal. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/500 "2011-05-10T16:55:13Z")
Sorry for the delay - work rears its head. Reveal in a moment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228.md?page=26)