# Thundercats Mafia Gameplay Thread \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 21, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228 "2011-04-21T14:28:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/521 "2011-05-12T17:38:42Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > [Worthless frustration] Would **Mahaloth** get results before dying, other people who have played more than me? His post really bothers me either way. If he did find something out, why on earth would he leave with something as open to mind-gaming as that? WIFOMed by my own dearly departed teammate! I realize that there’s nothing to be done with it, and we have to assume that he wasn’t conveying any information whatsoever because we can’t follow up on it. It’s also cheating if he was conveying any information - further indication that he wasn’t. Which is probably why it’s bugging me that he said that when he said it. I can’t unread it, but I can’t do anything with it. [/WF] When I mod, I give any incoming results to players, even if they die at the same time. But it is very bad form to post any game-related information after you’re dead or spoiled. I’m highly doubt **Mahaloth** did that. I think his intent was to show his displeasure at being dead and for us being at lynch or lose. I wouldn’t try to read anything more into it. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/522 "2011-05-12T19:59:14Z")
Or not (interesting). **vote: Red Skeezix** , then. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/523 "2011-05-12T22:30:39Z")
Nothing from **Red**? And little from **Hirka**? I’m feeling better about our chances. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/524 "2011-05-12T22:52:54Z")
Sorry, was assigned homework for my rotation, a case study I have to present tomorrow. I’ll be back later once I’m done preparing it, and have a chance to look over everything. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/525 "2011-05-13T00:41:56Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > We do need a consensus, but we get one by everyone putting their thoughts and cases out there. This post strikes me as very much “post something without taking a stand” I agree, this post I made was very much “post something without taking a stand”, mainly because I was at my rotation, and typing on my phone real quick. I was mainly trying to start some sort of conversation, so that once I got home, I would have something to read, and some other people’s thoughts to go off of. So, I just spent some time going over the last two days worth of posts. While I’m still suspicious of Red, and wouldn’t be against a lynch of him, I have some nagging thoughts on him. I think mainly because I still think that **fubbleskag** was martyred, and if that is the case, then we wouldn’t have had that whole back and forth. So… Fluiddruid, if fubbleskag was martyred, would it have mentioned it in his death notice, so since it wasn’t, that means he was targeted? Yes, No, or No Comment? As for the remaining people, Jimmy has been playing mostly town, had an Inner vote, and has been investigated, so is off my table for now. I’ve gotten a town vibe from Normal, so she seems ok for now… However, I have my suspicions on **Pleonast** , he seems like he might be scum. While I had my suspicions on Ed also, Pleo was totally on him from the beginning. Plus, his multivoting from before might have been a way to cover his bases no matter what happens. I noticed that all of his “real” votes have been on town so far. So… for now I’m going to… vote Pleonast For the record, my order now is Pleonast \> (or equal) Red Skeezix \> Normal Phase \> Jimmy Chitwood \> Me ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/526 "2011-05-13T01:15:03Z")
Sorry dead townies, I think we’ve lost this game. I have no idea who the last scum are, and the only person being voted for other than me is: **vote Pleonast** ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/527 "2011-05-13T01:16:10Z")
Also, since it’s likely that I’m going down. I’m a bolken (whatever that is). I fear I’m the only one though. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/528 "2011-05-13T01:23:26Z")
You know what? Fuck it. I think Hirka and Normal are the last two scum. And lynching Pleo instead of me is most likely as good as lynching me at this point. \*\*\*\*unvote Pleonast * * * My idea that normal phase is scum is based entirely on meta-reasons. Normal is playing like normal plays as scum. Unfortunately normal playing as scum doesn’t give a whole lot of reasons to vote for normal. But for the most part her play has been somewhat stationary. Contriawise, her style as town could be categorized as “willing to make the risky plays” which she’s not really doing this game. **vote Normal Phase** ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/529 "2011-05-13T01:33:58Z")
Red, I’ve never played with normal before, heck, I’ve never played before. If you think normal is scum based on her play now, vs when she is town, make me a case. Give some links to a game when she played scum vs when she played town, so I can compare and contrast the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/530 "2011-05-13T01:54:18Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Or not (interesting). I think we’re getting there. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/531 "2011-05-13T02:11:25Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > I think Hirka and Normal are the last two scum. And lynching Pleo instead of me is most likely as good as lynching me at this point. I just noticed this part, do you mind asking me why you think I’m scum? First, if I was scum, I would have to be the god father (since I investigated as town), second, if I was really scum, why wouldn’t I vote for you (if you are town that is)? I already have a record of voting for you, so no one would look different at me for voting for you again, and sealing your fate. I honestly have some doubts about you being scum, that is why I didn’t vote for you in the first place. This is my first game, so I’ve never played with any of these people before. If you have “proof” from another game on who you think is scum, feel free to let me know, I’ll look at it. I want to kill the scum as much as you do, I just don’t know who it is! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/532 "2011-05-13T02:33:50Z")
Sorry, I got distracted by the TV (I \<3 Parks and Rec). I’m about halfway done with building a real case on normal. I’m not going to link to her posts in other games, since that’s the epitome of bad form. But I’m working on a real case and I’ll be back shortly with some real thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/533 "2011-05-13T02:42:53Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > I’m not going to link to her posts in other games, since that’s the epitome of bad form. While I agree to that linking to her posts in particular might be bad form, I don’t see anything wrong with linking to the individual threads. It is one thing to make a case based on previous games, but I think it is different to just show previous games… Though, again, my first game, so don’t understand all the rules… Just thinking it will help me get as experienced as y’all are. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/534 "2011-05-13T03:16:12Z")
> [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Fluiddruid, if fubbleskag was martyred, would it have mentioned it in his death notice, so since it wasn’t, that means he was targeted? Yes, No, or No Comment? Sorry, no further information about fubbleskag’s death is forthcoming. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/535 "2011-05-13T03:22:46Z")
Red Skeezix: 3 (Pleonast, Jimmy Chitwood, Normal Phase) Normal Phase: 1 (Red Skeezix) Pleonast: 1 (Hirka T’Bawa) Votes will be final when Day 5 ends on Friday, 5/13 at 4pm CST. 1. Pleonast - Red Skeezix (518) 2. Hirka T’Bawa - Pleonast (525) 3. Normal Phase - Red Skeezix (522) 4. Red Skeezix - [del]Pleonast[/del] (526/528), Normal Phase (528) 5. Jimmy Chitwood - Red Skeezix (520) ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/536 "2011-05-13T03:26:27Z")
So, No Comment. Thank you. So, Fliuddruid’s comments doesn’t change my vote. For now, I’m keeping it on Pleo. I don’t believe there is a Panthro in the game. Especially since if there was a panthro, he would have still protected Mahaloth this past time, so that means my argument with Red wouldn’t have made sense if he “knew” they targeted Mahaloth. So, I’m really starting to doubt the lynch on Red. That leaves Pleo and Normal as possible scum (or both), so for now, I’m keeping my vote on Pleo. If someone can make a better case for Normal, I’m willing to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/537 "2011-05-13T03:31:01Z")
Oh, and BTW, I have to be at rotation tomorrow from 7:30am to 4:00pm Eastern, and my wife is coming up to visit after that. So, don’t know how much I’ll be able to post tomorrow, or this weekend (if the game lasts that long). However, I’ll still be able to check my phone occasionally tomorrow, so will be able to change my vote depending on how things go… just don’t expect a long post about it. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/538 "2011-05-13T04:06:08Z")
I made a running commentary about normal (spoilered below, and below who knew about the 20k character limit?), I left some out where I had no commentary, but if I’ve missed something that anyone feels is important then please let me know. But here’s what I’m left thinking after reading the posts: Normal has been focused on the “lecturing tone” as a scum tell. While frequently taking this tone. Normal has continually distanced herself from pleo for a large portion of the game while simultaneously finding better people to vote for. A non-bus, bus? Normal has been trying to get me lynched since I pointed out that Hirka was exaggerating about me. Normal has also mischaracterized my defense and Hirka’s vote of me in favor of this case. Normal has committed the scum tell of talking about how she plays when she’s scum. Normal commented on how my posts were implying that there was four scum, which cannot have been the case. She notices when others miss flaws in their cases, but does not acknowledge her own. "You should maybe witness how I play as town once or twice, Giraffe, before drawing comparisons to how I play as scum. " This line may be over-objective or a freudian slip. Not really conclusive. All in all, I’m okay with the normal vote. And I’m meh with my thoughts about Hirka. And after rereading all that normal distancing, i’m :dubious: @ pleo. So to use the short hand: Normal\>Pleo\>Hirka\>Jimmy. Also. I think we should have a mass claim. I don’t think there is a doctor any more. But I’d like to see how things lay out. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Except that undecided in almost all situations should be prodded hard to make up their minds, anyway. I know I’ve seen a few situations in the past where not lynching was a valid option, even if my brain is refusing to cough them up right at the moment, but that’s not the same thing. Generic Strategy post. Meaningless. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I’m don’t see how. Astral asked about the roles and how many were likely to be in the game. It seems that even if she’d gotten more players, fluid was setting it up so that we wouldn’t be wholly sure what roles were present and what roles were not (the setup post is full of “may be present”), and that’s with maybe 20 or 25 players. There are 14. I don’t expect more than about half the named roles to be in the game. At those odds I’m not sure I’d be comfortable giving a ton of town cred to even the first claimant (might depend a lot on who that player was), and certainly not the second. But with fluid’s “no comment” responses, the whole topic seems pointless (except as a conversation starter). This post has the possibility of being a setup post. It could be a legit: “I’m not going to implicitly trust named claims.” Or it could be a “I’m going to give my self an anchor point in the past when it’s most to my advantage to vote for a named vanilla claim” > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Huge, since the presence of confirmed town narrows town focus onto the pool of players in which the scum are trying to hide. Fewer distractions = greater likelihood of success. As scum, the absolute most frustrating event for me is when lovely lynch-bait turns up a mason or some such. > > You clearly know this (you mention sweating last game despite that you ultimately won it easily). This is IMO is a weak scum tell. Scum tend to like to tell you (whether truthfully or not) how they feel as scum. I have no idea why they do this but, they do. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I am pinged by this last paragraph. The masonry comment makes no sense to me as a counter to the “one of 3 scum” hypothesis. Surely Tom could be any town player and think having a couple of confirmed townies off the bat might be a useful thing (in addition to any masonry) – why would he have to be a mason himself to do this, if town? He wouldn’t, so the whole thing looks like a manufactured justification for NOT voting for Tom. There was something earlier that struck me the same way, too, but it’s gone out of my head. > > Tom’s voters are Mahaloth and Zeriel? I’ll be interested to see how you approach them. This is strategy, followed by forgetfulness, not sure if it’s feigned. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Agreed. > > Disagreed! If not now, when? I was about to respond to your first point that discussing plans is if anything a not-scum tell (then a couple of counter-examples came to mind), but still, my feeling is anything that might be brought up early that might make scum uncomfortable is a good thing. A. Discussing plans is not a scum tell, nor is it a town tell. It’s a null tell. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Further, you omit to discuss what about Tom’s plan is actually susceptible to further analysis based on new information. You just sort of dismiss the whole thing as not worth talking about now. I don’t like that. I was of the opinion since we had 0 information, that there was no point in discussing what might be gained by his plan. Secondly, I note you also have not deigned to discuss “what about tom’s plan is actually suscept…” > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Don’t you mean justification for not voting? Glowacks didn’t vote for Tom (or anyone else) in that post. > > I don’t see fishing as a potential motive, nor do I see any real concern about whether Tom is a mason (if scum, the overriding motivation in that false dichotomy appears to be to find a justification for not voting for Tom, either because the case is thought to be too weak or because Tom is also scum). It could easily be read as fishing. Discussion of what roles might be out there, often leaves hints about what roles one has. Also see (IIRC): Alka Seltzer day 1 of Cecil pond, and his discussion of roles. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > No, he’s not. > > Oy. That was very close to “lecturing the townies”, the mistake of Red Skeezix’ that I was right about in the last SDMB game and regrettably failed to pursue. Pick a side, Normal. The first post I quoted of yours is a lectury post about the evils of no-lynching. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > (Big Snip) > > “First off, Tom Scud. I’ve been giving your idea (and the specific way you worded it) some thought, and I don’t find it as suspicious as I originally did. Yeah, your idea won’t necessarily give us any good information, but I see where you’re coming from.” > > "Can you clarify what makes his idea “obviously stupid” and “pro-scum”? Giraffe’s math would indicate it might give us an excellent day 1 shot at targeting scum. " > > “The funny thing is, you have the beginnings of a solid vote. Tom Scud’s idea was indeed bad, …” > > What the hell? This is all in the same post. The last two were addressing posts by the same player. “Not as suspicious as originally thought/might not give us any good information – might give us an excellent day 1 shot at targeting scum – was indeed bad”? I see no sign of any consistent feeling about Tom leading through this post, only comments that address the needs of the moment. Which is rapidly reversing my impression from the mass claim thing. I’m reading this a progression of idea. You are reading this as inconsistency. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > This is in response to Zeriel’s vote, and actually I’m ok with this bit. “Can be seen as anti-town” is broad enough to fit with any of the above quotes. > > Fair enough. > > Meh. I don’t see the major inconsistency here that Astral does. If I understand it correctly, Giraffe did some math that indicated an increased chance of lynching scum today at the cost of greater risk to our power roles later. How you weight each of those things is going to depend a lot on personal idiosyncracies, and I don’t find Giraffe’s “not without benefit to town” to be so egregiously wrong-headed as to be worth a vote in itself. It’s not a horrible vote (I do see where Astral says he’s coming from), but I don’t think it’s a very good one either. > > To sum up: very slight town cred on the mistaken assumption, a great deal of “what the heck” on the Tom stuff (including a faint whiff of lecturing the townies), and a “meh, not thrilled” on the Giraffe vote. Glowacks pretty much ignores the Tom inconsistencies and focuses on how anti-town the mass claim idea would be; and criticizes Astral for voting someone who was “speaking his mind and giving input”, even though it’s the very nature of that input that actually prompted the vote. > > I think I’m leaning toward voting for glowacks over Astral, mostly on the strength of the false-dichotomy portion of that one post, backed up by reasoning for the Astral vote that strikes me as missing the point of why Astral is suspicious, and failure to follow up in any meaningful way on an early suggestion that Mahaloth and/or Zeriel might be suspicious for voting for Tom. (And the waffling on that point, too: “scum might be sitting back relaxing”.) > > **[]vote: glowacks**[/color] Not much to say. I was in for glowacks as well. //Day 2 > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > You should maybe witness how I play as town once or twice, Giraffe, before drawing comparisons to how I play as scum. I don’t think you ever have. In the meantime I’d like you to specify: what of that felt like posting “for appearances’ sake” to you? You’re casting doubt on me for superficial reasons (oh my goodness she posts a lot, that MUST be scum-motivated). Hyperbole out of irritation, I’ve been getting too much of this crap lately, and it gets old. What about this game Normal, aren’t you playing as town THIS game? > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Pleonast, you should know better than this: > \*\*Who someone votes for at the end of the day in a situation like this (no chance to influence the outcome, only to comment on it) can in no way be considered a scum tell. \*\* There are plausible scum motivations for voting for the vote leader as well as for choosing someone else. For your part, you’re trying to have it both ways on me, there’s no real analysis here, just words. Bolded part for future reference. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I didn’t act remotely like Monday morning in either of those games. In one, I was too busy and distracted on a consistent basis to post remotely as I’d have liked to (whether town or scum). In the second, I got hammered on day one due to an ill-advised post that was supposed to come off as a quick-and-easy day one gut instinct vote and completely failed to. You’re setting up this picture of what scum might do and showing how I fit into that picture, but it’s unsupported by my past actions and superficial as regards this one. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Well that much I have no problem with. The problem is that’s not what you said. You said there was a specific scum motivation for voting for glowacks in that situation (following the crowd, blending in). Never mind that there’s just as specific a motivation for _not_ voting glowacks, even irrespective of where the hypothetical other scum might be hiding out. But you’re sure to mention I might really, seriously, be a scummy scum, here. > > So to sum up your reasoning as regards me: > – pro-town > – but I won’t give her any credit due to the timing > – actually it might have been scum motivated due to the timing > > Which brings me right back to where I started. You have me as looking townie, neutral and scummy all in the space of a couple of sentences. If that’s not trying to have it both ways/saying nothing with many words, I don’t know what is. That you happen to be voting Ed at the time is irrelevant. > > I have no specific issue with your vote on Ed at this point (that may or may not chance as I get a better handle on things). > > Yeah I got that, I’m just unclear why you bothered to mention it at all. Never mind, it’s not an important point. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > **vote: Astral Rejection** > > Summary > > Weirdly ungrounded attitude toward Tom and his plan, as reflected in his approach to Giraffe, Mahaloth and Zeriel. I’d like Astral to try to explain what he was thinking about Tom at the time of each of the comments I highlight below, and how it affected what he had to say about the other players, if at all. > > A bit of a see how townie I am/townie-lecturing attitude as noted by Giraffe this morning and by me in one post yesterday. Most easily seen in Astral’s post #85. > > Suspicious of Giraffe in part because of Giraffe over-reacting to something? I’m not sure about this one entirely; I still have to look at Giraffe’s posts and the timing of everything. I do not think that over-reacting is a reliable scum tell. It is a really easy way for some scum to justify placing a vote. > > Post 71 (after voting glowacks) adds suspicion that glowacks made a PIS slip in one post. Only IMO there’s no way it could have been that even if glowacks herself had been scum. I think this may well fall into the category of certain things looking “scummier” to the scum than they do to the town. > Oy. Lecturing the townies. And an unworkable (and incidentally bad, as Ed points out in the next post) suggestion, to boot. > > 85 – fair enough, to Ed and Skeezix (who also commented) > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > You are not off; he did. > > **unvote** > > I don’t think a scum is likely to make that mistake (he’d have to be completely out of touch), and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player do something like that cynically. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @ Pleonast – > > You must have been a lawyer in a past life. > > It’s not that you were too comprehensive. It’s that the weight of “she might have done that for scummy motivations” should not logically be equal to that of “her posts look townie”, yet you presented it as if one should cancel out the other. I can’t explain it any more clearly than that, and it seems fruitless to go on about it anymore, but it looks scummy to me, and the deflecting defenses have only made it worse. > > However, > > @ Jimmy – > > I don’t like the reasoning for your vote on Pleonast, at all. It’s not just that it’s mechanical, although it is. It’s that it’s also wrong. Pleo’s multi-votes don’t evade accountability in any meaningful way. If anything, the opposite – more votes open up the possibility of more suspicion from other players, earned or otherwise, and that’s town-friendly in the general sense. It’s just that he is, as Giraffe points out, awfully damn “look how townie this is” about it, and that also rubs me the wrong way. That doesn’t make your vote any better. > > I need to go review day one again. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Anti-town is not scummy by definition, that’s the problem, and you’re trying to make it as if it is. I suspect Pleonast for two reasons: > – “look how townie I am”, and > – his comments about me this “morning” > There may or may not be more once I’ve gone over his posts as a total. But it’s nothing to do with how “anti-town” his oddities are. That’s a cop-out – it works whether Pleo is mafia or not. I want to know if you think he is _scummy_. Anti-town can be scummy, sometimes. This is incorrect. Also, pleo plays the “look how townie I am” no matter what alignment he is. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Well actually almost everyone has placed a vote. Just not a whole lot of interaction, per se. Interesting comment. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > If you say so. > > I really can’t. I’ve explained it as best I can. Someone (Mahaloth?) added that it looked like Jimmy might have seen suspicion gathering against Pleonast (your vote, my comments) and decided to strike while the iron was hot, which seems plausible to me. > > He has had several days to back up his vote with stuff that is not mechanistic if he wanted to and hasn’t done so. It remains just that the multi-votes must be scummy. Unless they aren’t, in which case, I suppose, they are merely anti-town. > > I agree(d) with two arguments against Pleo that Jimmy never made. Going over Pleo’s posts from day one this afternoon I’m less bothered by the “look how townie I am” stuff; I’m increasingly thinking that might just be Pleo being his usual smug self. Some posts, like this bit about Zeriel: > > look rather good by day one standards. I think he’s right about all but #4 (I think he missed Zeriel’s point on that one, and rather aggressively so, at that). > > And then there’s the stuff from first thing this morning, which brings it right back down to somewhere around neutral. But not enough for me to vote for him. > > I’m more comfortable with the vote on Jimmy now than when I made it. //Day 3 > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Fabulous. > > @ Pleo: I left you and Astral off because I already looked at you yesterday. > > Here’s the first I haven’t (Inner): > > 127 – hiya > 203 – not getting involved in Pleo discussion, done that too often. Doesn’t like mahaloth’s rebuttal to the votes on him about the Tom thing. Mentions a scumdar comment and vote, presumably from Maha, that I don’t remember the context of; says it looks like scum maha is trying to deflect attention from himself by accusing others of same thing he’s doing. > > Inner, what were you talking about with the scumdar thing? > > Not a fan of the not commenting, but it’s probably a null tell. I have no problem with the suspicion on Maha for the first reason mentioned and need context for the second. > > 240 – jumping into Pleo fray after all on opposite side from usual. Doesn’t see Pleo as trying the ploy that Jimmy suggests; he’s just a huge fan of multivoting. Jimmy assuming anti-town, doesn’t see evidence, maybe some spinning of motives. > > Can’t fault the content of this vote even in light of Maha’s investigation. I do want to know what happened to Inner’s suspicion of Mahaloth (this was well prior to Mahaloth’s role reveal, and even to Ed’s). > > 242 – response to Jimmy asking if we should all just be multivoting, says doesn’t see the point, Jimmy not scummy for trying to get Pleo to stop, scummy b/c that’s the reason he was voting for him. Scum don’t’ care about cases as long as they get someone lynched. > > That’s it (except for a joky comment on skimming I left out somewhere), no comments through the latter part of the day when Ed and then Maha were in trouble, nor when Giraffe was lynched, and I think nothing yet today. > > All of Inner’s sins are sins of omission (not talking about Maha when he voted Jimmy, not being around at critical periods). If Jimmy is in fact town, then Inner being third on the bandwagon behind Maha and me could be scum motivated; I don’t think Maha’s bandwagon was going anywhere that early in the day. > > I really want Inner to talk more. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/539 "2011-05-13T04:07:24Z")
Commentary Continued: > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Here’s Red: > One post about the “pornsite” issue, then > > 317 – vote giraffe, with no comment (other than lack of time/best I can do), putting him up by two votes. > > How did I miss this post? > > 362 – > > OK, Red, you can’t deflect your own behavior by saying someone else (who happens to be dead and a townie) was even worse. That’s beside the point of the accusation and looks like you’re just hiding behind townie cover. Second, the same issue here as with Inner as regards Mahaloth and Jimmy – your last suspicion seemed to be Astral, you reiterate that in this post, and yet you vote Giraffe never having so much as responded to a post of his previously. There’s lack of time, and then there’s just completely coming out of left field. This is a mischaracterization of my post. I was not trying to deflect my own behavior in the manner you described. I was simply pointing out that I was casting a vote of least effect since I didn’t have a good handle on the day. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Well, he’s apparently a mason. But that aside, I don’t think Astral was a good target for a vote because of the Wolverine thing, and I’d expect Red to have acknowledged it. > > **vote: Tom Scud** > > Zeriel, I don’t know, but the Hirka incarnation is fine. I don’t know why I didn’t acknowledge that. I am not even sure if I was aware of it. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > **unvote** > **vote: Red Skeezix** > > Yeah, I don’t even. Sorry about that. > > I think I just made it a three way tie. That’s kinda really not good. I’m willing to go along with you and Mahaloth on Inner if you want it. Here’s my vote, but I’ll change my mind if’n you want me to. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I had the impression that your entire reason for suspecting Astral on day one was due to the potential for glowacks being scum. You mentioned you didn’t like that one post, and it might have been intended to start a vote shift away from glowacks. > > For now? Do you really think they’re lying? Tom’s a godfather and Astral’s a goon; and Astral managed to vote for someone they’d just killed; and they decided to claim for kicks and giggles when neither was under even a smidgeon of pressure? For what purpose? > > (snip player list) > > This is my major issue with you, and why I’m ignoring any pings there might actually be from Zeriel right now – Hirka’s vote was not trumped up. It was not strictly accurate, in that your vote was not last second and someone (now known to be town) voted behind you. But the gist of what he said his objection was (that you voted late on the vote leader, without explanation) was correct. > > I suppose that makes it easy. It was trumped up. Voting last second means LAST SECOND. Not late in the day. There’s a difference, and it’s significant. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > It was bad enough for a legitimate vote on its own. > > You’re splitting hairs. “Waiting to the last seconds” is not inaccurate in any way that matters to why he says he’s voting for you. You’re attacking a straw man. See previous. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Don’t forget the possibility of just two (more): if Panthro is in, it’s probably four; if Panthro is not, it’s probably three. > > I wouldn’t put it top of my priority list either. > > That was actually a cross-post; I didn’t see the Inner comments until after I’d completed the review of Red’s posts. I don’t know if that changes your conclusions or not. I can’t see it from your perspective. From mine, Red’s attack on Hirka is to me so missing the point that I could see it as a bussing. Vice versa, though? Not so sure. > > Agreed if it was lynch or lose there’s not much sense in that. > > Either Pleo’s been bussing the heck out of Ed all game; Hirka and Red played at cross-bussing at LYLO, or there are only three scum. The latter looks most likely to me, and that changes all of your assumptions. > > I see your reasoning about the potential LYLO situation tomorrow, but that doesn’t make the prospect of being lynched as town any more pleasant. //Day 4 [quote=“Normal\_Phase, post:482, topic:579228”] I think we can discount it. The godfather is the only role that the ruleset doesn’t qualify in any way as “may be present” or some such. In my mind the only caveat here has been whether the godfather’s presence MUST have been intended to be _as a godfather_, since the town will also learn the number of scum remaining when the godfather is dead. So there is a godfather function that is independent of the presence or absence of Lion-O. That said, Mahaloth yanked the Inner Stickler lynch essentially out of nowhere, and what’s the motive for that? He really didn’t need any _more_ town cred. Maybe if there are only three scum, hence probably no Panthro, and he runs into WIFOM as to why he’s still alive? But eh, it’s a mess. As far as I’m concerned if Mahaloth is scum, congrats, you did awesome. This pings me slightly. I’d think you’d want to confirm a less-likely town more urgently than you’d want to confirm a more-likely one. > [@](#): > > I don’t even know what to say about Ed at this point. I see he’s got four votes. I don’t know what the heck he was thinking to accomplish if he is scum, acting like this. Just to go under my “weird is not scummy” radar, at the cost of triggering everyone else’s? I doubt it. The only thing I can think of is if you are also scum, and all of this was intended to bolster your credentials. It would make some sense of Inner’s vote for Jimmy (if it wasn’t just "the case against Mahaloth is going nowhere, what’s up next?), since IIRC both of you were in some trouble at that point. > > I have one small ping on Ed independent of his crappy unsupported votes, and that’s when he said he just wasn’t all that into this game. I’ve seen that a few times before from scum having issues. It’s just not much. > > Where did you say anything skeptical about Red? > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Gah, I thought I had you dead to rights for a second. I thought there was no halfway plausible four-scum scenario that included Ed but didn’t include you (both your statements contain assumptions that are more likely to belong to four scum than to three), but there is one from a general perspective: Ed, me and Hirka (and Inner). > > From a later comment in response to Hirka: > Only if the scum have reason to think Panthro is actually in the game, and as far as I can tell there is just no way to figure that out right now independent of knowledge of the number of scum. You all but accuse Hirka of PIS in your short previous post that I left out, but you are almost as PIS-y as he is with the assumptions over and over that Panthro is in, and you haven’t been investigated as town. > > This has got to be deliberate obfuscation. You’re a good player; how can you forget half the possible roles in the game? I wasn’t PISy I was just following wherever my thoughts take me. And Easy, I wasn’t paying attention. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > **vote: Red Skeezix** > > May as well go with my top candidate under the circumstances. For whatever it’s worth, I have everyone else as: > > Pleonast (the goading of me today is pushing him up again) \> Ed (I understand the case, he’s just very nicely inside my blind spot if scum) \> Hirka (town investigation, no strong pings) \> Jimmy (town investigation, inner vote) \> Mahaloth (Inner lynch; godfather almost if not quite demands Lion-O, making a claim insanely risky). > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Protector revealing would open up some more balanced WIFOM possibilities against the scum, that’s the only benefit I can think of. With a hidden protector there’s really no incentive to protect anyone but Mahaloth. It’s probably not worth it. > > And what if there is none? > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I guess I’d better change. > > **unvote** > **vote: Special Ed** [/color] Why did you need to change? I see no reason for this. Especially since you were betting a cupcake on the fact that I am scum and ed is not. //Day 5 > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Yes, I saw your day two comment about Red’s lack of participation, but a non-counting vote on such a perfunctory basis hardly counts as “going after”. Kudos on getting in ahead of the crowd, demerits for lack of oomph. This could get interesting. This is dismissive of the fact that pleo called me out for non participation. At the time, since I wasn’t saying much, there wasn’t much to go after. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228/540 "2011-05-13T08:03:21Z")
I have to say, that’s a pretty nice summary of Normal… Honestly, I don’t know what to think… One, I appreciate her defense of me in my arguments against you. When I posted that “last seconds” comment, I was doing it off memory since I was in a car, and was about to fall asleep during the LONG drive from Savannah to Atlanta on the boring I-16. You honestly made a mole hill out of a simple “exaggeration”. That was what pretty much solidified my belief you were scum in the first place. However, your later talk about **fubbleskag** ’s death starting to make me doubt… Unfortunately, since the totally trusted town people are dead, I don’t know who to believe anymore. Right now, I’m not getting very much scum pings off of you, and I’m thinking a lynch of you would cause us to lose. I still think Pleo has a higher chance of being scum… But then, if he is scum, and Jimmy is really town (which I think since Inner voted for him), then that must make Normal scum also. So, for now, since I have a real feeling you (Red) aren’t scum, and I think a lynch of you might be the end of us… I’ll go your way. I really want to see what Jimmy thinks of this, specially since even with my vote, you are still 3-2 ahead. So, it will pretty much come down to a choice of lynching you, or lynching Normal, and it will be Jimmy’s vote that decides it, and the game. unvote Pleonast Vote Normal Phase [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thundercats-mafia-gameplay-thread-game-over/579228.md?page=28)