# Thus passes McChrystal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2010, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113 "2010-06-22T12:54:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/21 "2010-06-22T15:34:11Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > It seems Gen. McChrystal [runs a pretty loose](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/23/world/asia/23mcchrystal.html?hp) ship over in Afghanistan: > > McChrystal has been summoned to Washington shortly after apologizing for his and his staff’s remarks. While he’s not openly pulling a MacArthur, is this enough to shitcan him? > > This, the corruption and instability of Karzai, the playing-down of any expectations for the coming operation in/near Kandahar, and the recent confirmation of the July 2011 start date for troop withdrawals seems to suggest Afghanistan is circling the drain once more. I’m thinking that he’s decided he can’t win - and this is his out. It’s his people who blew this one (allegedly), so this way he can take a fall for them and escape an unwinnable war. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/22 "2010-06-22T15:47:39Z")
I wonder if he decide to go out with a bang. Maybe run for political office? The Senate? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/23 "2010-06-22T16:33:41Z")
[Direct link to Rolling Stone article](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/119236) McChrystal and his toadies come off looking like arrogant assholes in general, not just in their remarks about the administration. Example: > [@](#): > > “I’d rather have my ass kicked by a roomful of people than go out to this dinner,” McChrystal says. > > He pauses a beat. > > “Unfortunately,” he adds, “no one in this room could do it.” > > With that, he’s out the door. > > “Who’s he going to dinner with?” I ask one of his aides. > > “Some French minister,” the aide tells me. “It’s fucking gay.” That kind of immature, frat boy, macho posturing permeates the piece. It’s like an episode of _Jersey Shore_. McChrystal has already been told to shut the fuck up once. He’s got to go this time. And so does his staff. Especially the little bitch who made the “bite me” remark. Let’s see him say that to Biden’s face. I’d like to be a fly on the wall at this meeting. All that macho bluster is going to go out the window as they kneel before Zod. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/24 "2010-06-22T16:43:08Z")
> [@](#): > > McChrystal has already been told to shut the fuck up once. He’s got to go this time. And so does his staff. Especially the little bitch who made the “bite me” remark. Let’s see him say that to Biden’s face. The full article for that is: > [@](#): > > Now, flipping through printout cards of his speech in Paris, McChrystal wonders aloud what Biden question he might get today, and how he should respond. “I never know what’s going to pop out until I’m up there, that’s the problem,” he says. Then, unable to help themselves, he and his staff imagine the general dismissing the vice president with a good one-liner. > > “Are you asking about Vice President Biden?” McChrystal says with a laugh. “Who’s that?” > > “Biden?” suggests a top adviser. “Did you say: Bite Me?” So it wasn’t just the aide. It was McChrystal making slams against Biden. Yep, he has to go. Even if McChrystal and Obama can sit down and agree it was all a bad joke, the general has to go, to preserve the respect of the military for the President. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/25 "2010-06-22T16:45:46Z")
This reminds me of the movie _Almost Famous_ where the kid reporter gets to hang with the band and the band starts to treat him as a buddy instead of a reporter. Then they get all pissed when he actually writes about what happened. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/26 "2010-06-22T16:47:49Z")
He backed Obama into a corner. The article says he and his people have insulted the whole administration . He has to be canned. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/27 "2010-06-22T17:13:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That kind of immature, frat boy, macho posturing permeates the piece. It’s like an episode of _Jersey Shore_. Heh, and yet his favorite beer was “bud light lime”. But I agree, the weird self-conscious machoness was pretty eye-rolling. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/28 "2010-06-22T17:47:07Z")
From [Political Wire](http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/06/22/mcchrystal_saw_quotes_before_publication.html) : > [@](#): > > Rolling Stone editor Eric Bates told MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough that Gen. Stanley McChrystal saw details from the article everyone is now talking about before it was published. > > McChrystal did not object to any of the quotes in the piece. > > Said Bates: “We ran everything by them in the fact checking process as we always do. They had a sense of what was coming and it was all on the record and they spent a lot of time with our reporter so I think they knew that they had said it.” No excuses for it being just underlings … I vote toast. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/29 "2010-06-22T17:47:31Z")
These guys are, I believe, mostly ex-special ops. The macho bit isn’t at all surprising. That’s the way these guys talk-- I know several personally, and they talk just like that all the time. I just can’t see how McChrystal can be effective in his job after this. His credibility is in the tank. Obama would look in ridiculously weak if he kept him. And if he’s the only General who can run things over there, we’re in deep shit. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/30 "2010-06-22T19:00:35Z")
There is no shortage of ambitious generals. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/31 "2010-06-22T19:31:14Z")
Can Obama bust him down a rank, and still leave him in charge in Afghanistan? (He’s an O-10 now, right? Is there some rule per Army command structure that an O-9 or O-8 may not control that number of men/etc.?) Seems unlikely, but it would be a way to smack him down and remind him of his duties, without getting rid of a dude whose approach to the Afghan war Obama and Gates apparently liked. (Personally, I agree with gonzomax’s sentiment. Plenty of officers who would be eager for a promotion.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/32 "2010-06-22T19:32:21Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > Can Obama bust him down a rank Just the one? ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/33 "2010-06-22T19:39:12Z")
/whistling Pretty nice constitutional republic you got here. /pebble kick Be a shame if something… happened to it. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/34 "2010-06-22T20:14:29Z")
Just a few comments from an old general staff puke: By the time an officer reaches general grade, not just a Major General or a Lieutenant General but a by-God full General with four stars, a full colonel as a senior aide and the whole thing, that officer knows damn well how the game of military politics is played – he would not be in the billet he holds if he were not a master of the political game as well as being a good soldier. That said the game and the traditions of the service enjoin a general , especially a general commanding a politically sensitive combat theater, to keep his mouth shut in public. In private, in discussions with his staff, he and his staff are privileged to say pretty much anything they want, but in public, and especially in talking with the press, any departure from the rules of the game is a provocation and a deliberate one. Based on that I conclude that the comments by GEN McK were a deliberate provocation – it is no defense that the most offensive comments were made by GEN McK’s aides. The aides are his creatures and they know that when ever they speak outside the headquarters family they are speaking for their boss and as their boss’s surrogates. What then was the purpose in dropping these turd bombs? At first impression it is one of two objectives. One is to challenge the President and force him to go along with GEN McK’s ideas about how the war ought to be conducted – to give the general a free rein on how to do things, free of the President, free of the ambassador, free of the State Department, free to set up his own fiefdom. The second is to get out of an untenable situation by creating a confrontation in which he is likely to be relieved of his command. There may be other reasons but those two are the most obvious. It certainly is not frat boy snarking or special-ops macho. I am old enough to remember Truman’s relief of GofA MacArthur and the furor that precipitated. The Congressional Republicans damn near came unglued. There was a ticker tape parade through New York City, a speech before Congress (Old soldiers never die). History suggests that Truman made the right decision. The Republicans will have hysterics if the President removes GEN McK – as much as anything it will be knee jerk hysteria– but the history of the nation and the traditions of the service teach that the President cannot and must not suffer an insubordinate commander. GEN McK better be prepared to come up with a credible excuse for his behavior and the behavior of his personal staff if he wants to keep his job. Otherwise he might find himself as a supernumerary general officer at Camp Swampy, awaiting orders that never come and polishing his own boots. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/35 "2010-06-22T20:14:37Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > /whistling > > Pretty nice constitutional republic you got here. > > /pebble kick > > Be a shame if something… happened to it. 😕 straining to grasp the specifics of the joke… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/36 "2010-06-22T20:20:32Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > 😕 > > straining to grasp the specifics of the joke… The suggestion is that McChrystal’s comments, while relatively innocuous on the surface, suggest a willingness to do gross violence to the constitutional order unless he’s made happy - just as the hypothetical bully is threatening to destroy the sand castle/bar/car/whatever when he comments what a shame it would be if “something” happened to it. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/37 "2010-06-22T20:26:57Z")
> [@Spavined\_Gelding](#): > > What then was the purpose in dropping these turd bombs? At first impression it is one of two objectives. One is to challenge the President and force him to go along with GEN McK’s ideas about how the war ought to be conducted – to give the general a free rein on how to do things, free of the President, free of the ambassador, free of the State Department, free to set up his own fiefdom. The second is to get out of an untenable situation by creating a confrontation in which he is likely to be relieved of his command. There may be other reasons but those two are the most obvious. It certainly is not frat boy snarking or special-ops macho. > . The reporter that conducted the interview claims that he, the General and the staff bacially got drunk togeather while being forced to bus to Paris due to the recent volcanic eruption in Iceland. Honestly, that seems a lot more likely to me then the various theories of Machvellian plots. Even generals due dumb things when sloshed. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/38 "2010-06-22T20:39:21Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The reporter that conducted the interview claims that he, the General and the staff bacially got drunk togeather while being forced to bus to Paris due to the recent volcanic eruption in Iceland. Honestly, that seems a lot more likely to me then the various theories of Machvellian plots. Even generals due dumb things when sloshed. The rules apply drunk or sober. I’ve seen battalion commanders removed while they were still fighting hangovers for stuff said while drunk. Plus, generals, let alone a four star commanding a politically sensitive combat theater, don’t get drunk where they can be seen. That’s what the big fancy, guarded quarters are for. They certainly don’t get drunk with reporters and think they can keep their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/39 "2010-06-22T20:40:25Z")
I’m not sure McChrystal would be a big loss. From what I hear, he’s no David Petraeus, and isn’t doing a very good job. Hopefully they can find a replacement who’s a little more with the program. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113/40 "2010-06-22T20:41:38Z")
> [@Spavined\_Gelding](#): > > The rules apply drunk or sober. Well of course the rules apply regardless. But you’re saying it was a deliberate, considered act on McChrystal’s part, when it sounds more like he was being a drunk dumbass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thus-passes-mcchrystal/544113.md?page=3)