# Tibetan Buddhists: You may reincarnate when WE SAY YOU CAN REINCARNATE, BITCHES! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 29, 2007, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424 "2007-08-29T22:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/1 "2007-08-29T22:24:32Z")
Link [here.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20227400/site/newsweek/) > [@](#): > > Aug. 20-27, 2007 issue - In one of history’s more absurd acts of totalitarianism, China has banned Buddhist monks in Tibet from reincarnating without government permission. According to a statement issued by the State Administration for Religious Affairs, the law, which goes into effect next month and strictly stipulates the procedures by which one is to reincarnate, is “an important move to institutionalize management of reincarnation.” But beyond the irony lies China’s true motive: to cut off the influence of the Dalai Lama, Tibet’s exiled spiritual and political leader, and to quell the region’s Buddhist religious establishment more than 50 years after China invaded the small Himalayan country. By barring any Buddhist monk living outside China from seeking reincarnation, the law effectively gives Chinese authorities the power to choose the next Dalai Lama, whose soul, by tradition, is reborn as a new human to continue the work of relieving suffering. Ah gotta love the good ol’ Commie Party, so intent on stifling all hint of organized dissent that they willingly make themselves out to be an upside-down herpes-filled ass. Maybe they can also start institutionalizing management of bowel movements so that when they start shitting the people, the people start shitting. Seriously, though, what the fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/2 "2007-08-29T22:34:09Z")
We had a thread about this a while back, and like then, I don’t see what so confusing about this. China wants to control Tibetan Buddhism for political reasons. This law gives them a tool to do so. Anyone in China who claims, without government sanction, to be a re-incarnation of a previous religious figure is now automatically breaking the law. The only people in China who can publically proclaim themselves to be reincarnates are those hand-picked by the Chinese government. It’s a fucked up law, no doubt about that, but the logic behind it isn’t hard to puzzle out. FWIW, I believe the Dalai Lama has said that he does not intend to reincarnate in China when he dies, which is itself a political move to cut the legitimacy out from under whatever puppet the Chinese choose to replace him after he kicks. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/3 "2007-08-29T23:55:33Z")
King Knute comes to mind. These are the same jerks who created the [Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Patriotic_Catholic_Association) to exert control over Chinese Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/4 "2007-08-30T03:32:30Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] We had a thread about this a while back, and like then, I don’t see what so confusing about this. China wants to control Tibetan Buddhism for political reasons. This law gives them a tool to do so. Anyone in China who claims, without government sanction, to be a re-incarnation of a previous religious figure is now automatically breaking the law. The only people in China who can publically proclaim themselves to be reincarnates are those hand-picked by the Chinese government. It’s a fucked up law, no doubt about that, but the logic behind it isn’t hard to puzzle out. [/QUOTE] Oh I can understand why they would _want_ to have such a law, but for a country so concerned with saving and losing face, you think they’d aim for laws that can somehow seem reasonable, even if takes spinning it from an extreme angle. I assume it would also be a matter of pride not to enact laws, in globally-observed Tibet no less, that could possibly make them a laughingstock. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/5 "2007-08-30T03:42:05Z")
> [@](#): > > FWIW, I believe the Dalai Lama has said that he does not intend to reincarnate in China when he dies, which is itself a political move to cut the legitimacy out from under whatever puppet the Chinese choose to replace him after he kicks. Yes. He may be the last known DL for a while. This sort of freaks me out a little. What will happen to Tibetan Buddhism? ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/6 "2007-08-30T03:43:47Z")
[QUOTE=Windwalker] Oh I can understand why they would _want_ to have such a law, but for a country so concerned with saving and losing face, you think they’d aim for laws that can somehow seem reasonable, even if takes spinning it from an extreme angle. I assume it would also be a matter of pride not to enact laws, in globally-observed Tibet no less, that could possibly make them a laughingstock. [/QUOTE] You think China enacts laws to save face??? Most Machiavellian regime on the planet right now. Bar none. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/7 "2007-08-30T04:08:07Z")
Adding to what **Miller** said is the fact that Tibet was a theocracy and so by controlling the priesthood they are controlling the country’s traditional political power. I was under the impression that most of the higher end reincarnations are chosen at childhood. In that case, it seems to me it’s more a matter of who “trains” him than who gets to choose him. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/8 "2007-08-30T08:42:03Z")
[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th] Yes. He may be the last known DL for a while. This sort of freaks me out a little. What will happen to Tibetan Buddhism? [/QUOTE] I don’t remember his name, but there’s a current Lama who’s a Spanish kid from Granada. “Not reincarnating in China” is not the same as “not reincarnating.” ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/9 "2007-08-30T09:38:54Z")
[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th] Yes. He may be the last known DL for a while. This sort of freaks me out a little. What will happen to Tibetan Buddhism? [/QUOTE] This is what happened with the [Panchen Lama](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchen_lama#References), the second highest figure in Tibetan Buddhism. There are now rival Panchens - the one the Chinese government recognizes, and the one recognized by the Tibetans in India. There’s a fascinating book on the subject called, I believe _The Search for the Panchen Lama_. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/10 "2007-08-30T10:30:47Z")
[QUOTE=if6was9] You think China enacts laws to save face??? Most Machiavellian regime on the planet right now. Bar none. [/QUOTE] No, but they clearly do things to save face, or at least not lose face. They’re making a ton of concessions with regards to the Olympics, for example. The Party could find a way to accomplish the same ends without enacting this insane law, which can only bring ridicule and loss of face. The Party’s usually much better at sugar-coating cruel and unfair dictates. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/11 "2007-08-30T11:48:29Z")
Sorry, I’m confused as to what is ridiculous here: A law banning someone from claiming they are a reincarnation of someone else, or someone claiming to be a reincarnation of someone else? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/12 "2007-08-30T12:09:45Z")
[Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=431576&highlight=onion) is the thread we had a few weeks ago about this. As I said there, it could almost be an onion article. ---
**Author:** ![netsplit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecc23a/32.png) [@netsplit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netsplit)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/13 "2007-08-30T12:29:54Z")
[QUOTE=Uzi] Sorry, I’m confused as to what is ridiculous here: A law banning someone from claiming they are a reincarnation of someone else, or someone claiming to be a reincarnation of someone else? :dubious: [/QUOTE] Nah the ridiculous thing here is this fool who thinks Yemen is in Calgary. :dubious: You one of those cute kids who’s inferioty complex makes them need to dis everyone’s religion so they feel better about themselves? ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/14 "2007-08-30T13:19:03Z")
[QUOTE=netsplit] You one of those cute kids who’s inferioty complex makes them need to dis everyone’s religion so they feel better about themselves? [/QUOTE] You don’t need an inferiority complex to mock religions, maybe fall into one in your later years, but not to mock. ---
**Author:** ![netsplit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecc23a/32.png) [@netsplit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netsplit)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/15 "2007-08-30T13:22:14Z")
[QUOTE=FordPrefect] You don’t need an inferiority complex to mock religions, maybe fall into one in your later years, but not to mock. [/QUOTE] I guess lol. I’m just trying figure out which Tibetan Buddhist pissed in his wheaties. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/16 "2007-08-30T13:56:54Z")
[QUOTE=netsplit] Nah the ridiculous thing here is this fool who thinks Yemen is in Calgary. :dubious: [/QUOTE] Geez, that hurt. Ouch. Maybe I should change it to say ‘Yemen or Calgary’ just so you aren’t confused by the slash? > [@](#): > > You one of those cute kids who’s inferioty complex makes them need to dis everyone’s religion so they feel better about themselves? You one of those credophiles who thinks that drinking specially prepared kool-aid is a shortcut to heaven, or just one of the normal loons that regularly bangs his head on the floor to imaginary figures just for the heck of it? What is interesting is that you can’t see why both sides in this situation aren’t ridiculous and laughing along with me. It’s just downright goofy. ---
**Author:** ![netsplit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecc23a/32.png) [@netsplit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netsplit)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/17 "2007-08-30T14:22:14Z")
[QUOTE=Uzi] Geez, that hurt. Ouch. Maybe I should change it to say ‘Yemen or Calgary’ just so you aren’t confused by the slash? [/quote] Nah I knew what ya meant. Just figured I’d take a random did at ya since that seems to be your thing. After I posted it had second thoughts that maybe I over reacted. Was pissed that there’s effectively nothing that can be done about this and china just gets a free pass to be an asshole. > [@](#): > > You one of those credophiles who thinks that drinking specially prepared kool-aid is a shortcut to heaven, or just one of the normal loons that regularly bangs his head on the floor to imaginary figures just for the heck of it? Nah I’m the kind of credophile who has a negative balance with visa. > [@](#): > > What is interesting is that you can’t see why both sides in this situation aren’t ridiculous and laughing along with me. It’s just downright goofy. Well I see your point, and I apologize for over reacting. However try looking at it from the perspective of someone who actually believes in reincarnation. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/18 "2007-08-30T16:00:02Z")
[Relevant GD thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=419093) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/19 "2007-08-30T16:03:47Z")
[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th] Yes. He may be the last known DL for a while. This sort of freaks me out a little. What will happen to Tibetan Buddhism? [/QUOTE] Islam gets along just fine without a Caliph; Tibetan Buddhism can survive without a Dalai Lama. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424/20 "2007-08-30T17:37:09Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Islam gets along just fine without a Caliph; Tibetan Buddhism can survive without a Dalai Lama. [/QUOTE] Good point. No violent schism in Islam. Nope. Got along just fine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tibetan-buddhists-you-may-reincarnate-when-we-say-you-can-reincarnate-bitches/417424.md?page=2)