# Tiburon, Calif. to photograph every car entering town **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854 "2010-11-08T01:45:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/21 "2010-11-08T14:36:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What freedom is being given up here? Can it be the freedom to misuse historical quotes in an effort at sounding profound? I’d be okay with letting that one go. ---
**Author:** ![gladtobeblazed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@gladtobeblazed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gladtobeblazed)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/22 "2010-11-08T14:49:25Z")
" And the photos will be stored for only 30 days." :dubious: Are they going to be wiping or destroying the hard drives on which the photos are stored? Otherwise I have little faith that the photos are actually going to be gone. They may still be recoverable if the need arises. From a law enforcement perspective I suppose it makes sense. If a specific crime is committed, let’s say burglary, then the police can filter out all the cars that have entered the area during previous burglaries. That might help them narrow down any possible suspects. Tiburon is situated on a peninsula, nobody is going to just “pass through” since there is nowhere to go. This seems to be a rather drastic measure for such a wealthy, low crime town. I can’t believe this is being implemented in such a liberal area. ---
**Author:** ![Stormcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Stormcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stormcrow)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/23 "2010-11-08T15:01:42Z")
> [@gladtobeblazed](#): > > This seems to be a rather drastic measure for such a wealthy, low crime town. I can’t believe this is being implemented in such a liberal area. No one ever lost an election for pandering to the fears of rich folk. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/24 "2010-11-08T15:03:31Z")
I think it was Woody Allen who said a liberal is just a conservative who hasn’t been mugged yet. The story said there’ve been a lot of burglaries (for certain values of “a lot”) in Tiburon lately. That changes people’s perspectives. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/25 "2010-11-08T15:13:44Z")
On the one hand, there’s technically no such thing as “privacy” in public. On the other hand, we’ve been accustomed to a level of _effective_ privacy in that up until now we presumed that our public movements weren’t being noted or recorded in a coordinated manner; now they are. So do we live in a transparent world in which outside of your own property anonymity is nonexistent, or do we redefine the balance between public and private? ---
**Author:** ![Stormcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Stormcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stormcrow)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/26 "2010-11-08T15:17:45Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > On the one hand, there’s technically no such thing as “privacy” in public. On the other hand, we’ve been accustomed to a level of _effective_ privacy in that up until now we presumed that our public movements weren’t being noted or recorded in a coordinated manner; now they are. So do we live in a transparent world in which outside of your own property anonymity is nonexistent, or do we redefine the balance between public and private? This is a good point - i’ve felt for quite some time that we need to have a sort of new national dialogue as to what privacy is in the 21st century, rather than just let it develop out of old precedents. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/27 "2010-11-08T15:23:14Z")
I wouldn’t mind hanging out where folks would be mindful to be on their best behavior. Seems if my house gets broken into, my business robbed or I’m the victim of some serious crime I might stand a better chance of seeing some justice served. No guarantee but it is a step in that direction. Can they track me as I myself move around town? Well, in my mind, so the heck what? I’ve got nothing to hide and if they’re seeing that I go to some grocery store, hardware store and out to eat then I absolutely, honestly couldn’t care less. That’s not impinging on my freedom in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/28 "2010-11-08T15:41:37Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I think it was Woody Allen who said a liberal is just a conservative who hasn’t been mugged yet. The story said there’ve been a lot of burglaries (for certain values of “a lot”) in Tiburon lately. That changes people’s perspectives. It said they’d had about $500,000 in losses last year to burglaries, which equates to $42 per person. Granted, that’s probably more than the cost of the system, but I doubt the system will actually reduce crime. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/29 "2010-11-08T15:50:05Z")
It’ll sure make people feel a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/30 "2010-11-08T16:46:24Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > True, but exposing the license plate and having the government record data that can be used to track the movement of citizens without any particular suspicion of wrongdoing are two different things. Anybody that was watching this afternoon would know that I went to pick up some take-out during halftime of the Saints game. The government has no business collecting such information, unless they’re already investigating me for some crime. It already happens every time you cross a bridge in the Bay Area. It’s part of how the Fastrak toll collection system works. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/31 "2010-11-08T17:34:45Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I thought California was broke? California may be, Tiburon probably isn’t. It’s a small, wealthy enclave, with a median income in the six figures. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/32 "2010-11-08T18:08:01Z")
I liked this paragraph at the end of the article. > [@](#): > > “This is a very safe community,” he said. “People feel very safe here, and they often leave their cars unlocked. And people have nice things, and they leave them in their car. Petty criminals looking for easy pickings are attracted to neighborhoods like ours.” So rather than encourage people to lock their cars and not leave stuff in their cars, they are putting in this? I can’t wait until the first time the police get their photo records subpeonaed, because someone claims that their spouse is cheating on them with someone in Tiberon. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/33 "2010-11-08T18:11:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m certain it’s legal, and I don’t see any problem with it. When you drive in public, you expose your license plate to anyone who wishes to see it. I am also sure it’s legal, but I don’t trust the town not to abuse the information. In fact, I’d say I trust them \*\*\*to \*\*\*abuse it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/34 "2010-11-08T18:19:02Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > It already happens every time you cross a bridge in the Bay Area. It’s part of how the Fastrak toll collection system works. Exactly. Most people around here volunteer for it. They call it easypass. I won’t mention the plate reader on my patrol car cause people will get all squirrely. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/35 "2010-11-08T18:24:20Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > It already happens every time you cross a bridge in the Bay Area. It’s part of how the Fastrak toll collection system works. You are entirely correct. We are surrendering our liberties piecemeal in the name of convenience, and then we’ll get all pissy when the government as a matter or policy, or some rogue government functionary individually, begins to abuse the information. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/36 "2010-11-08T19:55:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t have a philosophical objection to it, but I’m also not sure what it’s supposed to accomplish. Let’s say a crime is committed. You’ve got a list of all of the vehicles that were in the town at the time… Now what are you going to do with that list? Sure, you could identify nonresidents who were in town, but what does that get you? There’s nothing that says that the criminal couldn’t have been a resident. There’s 8000 people living there. What good is a suspect list that’s 8000 people long? And that does not even count the people who come in by boat or ferry or as the passenger in someone else’s vehicle or came in days before something happens… ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/37 "2010-11-08T21:18:17Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > _“People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither .”_ > Benjamin Franklin It was already alluded to, but the full quote is: _They who can give up **essential** liberty to obtain a **little** temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety._ ([cite](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ben_Franklin)) Emphasis mine. People usually leave those parts out because it ends up saying something a bit different. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/38 "2010-11-08T23:51:09Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > California may be, Tiburon probably isn’t. It’s a small, wealthy enclave, with a median income in the six figures. Yeah, it is prime real estate that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/39 "2010-11-09T03:35:16Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Exactly. Most people around here volunteer for it. They call it easypass. > > I won’t mention the plate reader on my patrol car cause people will get all squirrely. This is why I was mentioning that thermally reflective transparent paint. Is there such a thing? What would happen if someone daubed it on their plate? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854/40 "2010-11-09T03:39:00Z")
Maybe you need something like this guy used: [http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/09/valley\_monkey\_has\_37\_unpaid\_ph.php](http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/09/valley_monkey_has_37_unpaid_ph.php) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiburon-calif-to-photograph-every-car-entering-town/559854.md?page=3)