# Ticked off with people bashing the USA's WW2 contributions **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 17, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777 "2014-08-17T21:07:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/61 "2014-08-19T02:53:28Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Upon whom else would Canada have declared war in 1939? Knowing Mackenzie King, Arthur Meighen? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/62 "2014-08-19T03:30:19Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Well, I guess the “we” stuff might top it. Good try at the consciousness raising, but it ain’t gonna work. Humans are too tribal, they identify with their masters. You may as well go into a sports forum and try to stop fans from saying “we.” _Do you play for the Bulls, asshole?! They’re millionaires who work for billionaires who don’t give a flying fuck about you._ Yeah, good luck with that. It is indeed human nature. [Required viewing.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1WN0YMWZU) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/63 "2014-08-19T03:50:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have seen many posts and blogs that basically saw the USSR won the war, since it had the highest casualties. Also, _of course_, since it entered the war vs Japan, that made japan surrender, not the A-bomb. Quoting **RickJay** quoting someone else: you don’t win wars by getting killed. You win them by killing more of the other side. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/64 "2014-08-19T04:07:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have seen many posts and blogs that basically saw the USSR won the war, since it had the highest casualties. Also, _of course_, since it entered the war vs Japan, that made japan surrender, not the A-bomb. Not to sidetrack, and not to say they were necessarily telling the whole truth…but the Japanese themselves stated this very thing, in their surrender offer. No mention of either of the a-bombs in the previous days. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/65 "2014-08-19T05:16:37Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I don’t hold undue reverence for property rights seeing that they allow humans to interact cooperatively in a world of scarce resources with remarkable peace and prosperity. Unlike the US government which has brought only death, slavery, and economic oppression to millions of people. So, exactly like property rights, then. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/66 "2014-08-19T06:47:16Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Not to sidetrack, and not to say they were necessarily telling the whole truth…but the Japanese themselves stated this very thing, in their surrender offer. No mention of either of the a-bombs in the previous days. Hirohito’s address to the nation most famously did mention an “inhuman and most cruel bomb”, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/67 "2014-08-19T07:28:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > All of it, really. I’m particularly surprised that you took offense at the “us” part; I mean, I’m not taking responsibility for slavery so I’m not taking credit for winning WWII. Any sort of jingoism seems out of character for you, though. Referring to your own nation (or group) as ‘we’ isn’t necessarily taking credit or responsibility for anything - it’s just an informal way of talking about something that happened to a collective entity of which you are a part. Otherwise _ **nobody** _ would be able to say things like “We won 29 gold medals at the London 2012 Olympics” - (not even the individual athletes who won gold - I mean, why should we let a gold medal cyclist take credit for something that the rowing team achieved) ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/68 "2014-08-19T08:46:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/) > > USA. 1969. Nearly all Brit cast, token Pole and a couple of Germans playing…Germans! I know that film. A British and not Hollywood film. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/69 "2014-08-19T13:49:34Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Hirohito’s address to the nation most famously did mention an “inhuman and most cruel bomb”, though. Along with this bit of pouting: “The war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan’s advantage.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/70 "2014-08-19T14:23:50Z")
In the indirect manner in which Japanese is spoken, that statement is the equivalent of saying “Folks, we just got our asses kicked.” Of course, since Hirohito was speaking in an archaic version of Japanese, most of his subjects couldn’t understand much of what he was saying at all. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/71 "2014-08-19T14:28:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Quoting **RickJay** quoting someone else: you don’t win wars by getting killed. You win them by killing more of the other side. It’s a pithy reference, but wrong. Or misleading. Just ask Ho Chi Minh, Pyrrhus, or in this case, Zhukov. I thought it was common knowledge the German war machine was destroyed in the East. Most German military deaths occurred there. Calling the Western front a sideshow or a clean up job is a bit flippant, but battles like Stalingrad and Kursk made the stuff in the West look like a tea party and was just on a completely different scale. Germany was already hosed by the time D-Day happened. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/72 "2014-08-19T14:32:56Z")
Yeah, but the point is it wasn’t all the Soviet deaths that won WWII. It was the Soviet killing/capturing of Germans. ---
**Author:** ![ILikeForeignLanguages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bc8723/32.png) [@ILikeForeignLanguages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ILikeForeignLanguages)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/73 "2014-08-19T15:32:30Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Not to sidetrack, and not to say they were necessarily telling the whole truth…but the Japanese themselves stated this very thing, in their surrender offer. No mention of either of the a-bombs in the previous days. Perhaps this was to save face. Let’s say the Japanese were too ashamed and humiliated to admit that the United States had defeated them, and so they quickly made up a load of hogwash about how they were surrendering “because of the frightening involvement of the Soviets.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/74 "2014-08-19T15:37:28Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Brits and others are, of course, free to make their own movies. Many have. Heck England made tons of war movies but a combination of big-budget bombs in the late 70’s cooled that. > > Most of this bitterness stems from U-571, the movie that managed to force shove Das Boot from the top of England’s ‘most hated movie about WW2’ list. Why would they hate\* Das Boot\*?😕 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/75 "2014-08-19T15:39:20Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Not to sidetrack, and not to say they were necessarily telling the whole truth…but the Japanese themselves stated this very thing, in their surrender offer. No mention of either of the a-bombs in the previous days. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/76 "2014-08-19T16:10:23Z")
> **[Lend-Lease](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease)** > > Lend-Lease, formally the Lend-Lease Act and introduced as An Act to Promote the Defense of the United States (Pub. L. 77–11, H.R. 1776, 55 Stat. 31, enacted March 11, 1941), was a policy under which the United States supplied the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, France, China, and other Allied nations with food, oil, and materiel between 1941 and 1945. The aid was given for free on the basis that such help was essential for the defense of the United States. > The Lend-Lease Act was signed into ... Even before the US entered the war we were supplying allies. 50 billion in WWII money, in today’s dollars that would be 656 billion. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/77 "2014-08-19T16:14:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why would they hate\* Das Boot\*?😕 My guess would be, “because it glamorizes the U-boat crews who were hellbent on starving England to death.” Having seen _Das Boot_, I myself wouldn’t say it “glamorizes” anyone, but maybe it’s based on the “any publicity is good publicity” saying. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/78 "2014-08-19T16:24:39Z")
I’ve never heard of anyone hating _Das Boot_. The few people I know who have seen it seem to like it. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/79 "2014-08-19T16:32:11Z")
For my part: Certainly the Sovs absorbed about 75% of Germany’s war effort, and they eventually forged a highly competent military. It wasn’t all human wave attacks by half-armed peasants; eventually it was a shattering combined-arms offensive with first-rate tanks, solid artillery, and adequate air support. This has been vigorously ignored in America’s internal monologue. However, Soviet participation – particularly Soviet _offensive_ participation – depended heavily on logistic support supplied by the Americans (and transported heroically by the American, British, and Commonwealth merchant marines). Just to mention a few figures I can offhand recall, the US supplied 500,000 pairs of warm boots and enough food to feed every Soviet soldier for every single day of the war, along with railroad track, rolling stock, and “those magnificent Dodge trucks,” among literally hundreds of tons of other stuff. And remember, that freed up Soviet production to focus on weaponry – take away Lend-Lease and there would be a significant reduction in the military strength of the Red Army…_and_ no way to get to Berlin as fast as they did, either. And the American fighting contributions were quite significant as well. But I wouldn’t say people are minimizing America’s fighting contribution so much as trying to offset what’s been (in the US at least) a very one-sided view. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777/80 "2014-08-19T17:23:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/) > > USA. 1969. Nearly all Brit cast, token Pole and a couple of Germans playing…Germans! You know what’s bad about the German cast? In the copy of the film I own, there were no subtitles for the German language part! Completely left off the print! And it’s not just a few scenes - a good chunk of the film is from the German perspective. I still have no idea what was going on. But the planes looked great! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticked-off-with-people-bashing-the-usas-ww2-contributions/695777.md?page=5)