# TicketBastard **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714 "2011-11-12T19:01:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/21 "2011-11-13T15:30:57Z")
> [@AWB](#): > > I miss the good ol’ days of camping out for tickets. In DC, I camped out for Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, and Paul McCartney. > > Nowadays, tickets are gone in a matter of minutes, due to on-line buying. It just makes it easier for resellers (another particular type of bastard business) to scarf up the entire arena’s worth of tickets. But along the lines of what MwG said, how’re you gonna prevent resellers from doing it? We live in a free market dude. Get over it. As far as TM goes: You know, I understand they need to make a profit. They don’t make a percentage of of whatever band, hockey team, etc is playing. So sure, add a reasonable service charge. What I DON’T appreciate is now TM, offering up their tickets to other ticket brokers (or to the layman, _scalpers_) behind the scenes before the public even has a chance to buy them!! That’s BS TM, you’re being payed to broker the tickets yourself. Don’t take the money and then leave the job to someone else who is going to mark up the price even further. Also, advertisers: Don’t claim to have tickets for sale at X amount when you know there is going to be a 50% mark up at the POS. It’s borderline false advertising. Shakes. Former ticket scalper. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/22 "2011-11-13T15:46:28Z")
Burns: [chuckles] And to think, Smithers: you laughed when I bought TicketMaster. “Nobody’s going to pay a 100% service charge.” Smithers: Well, it’s a policy that ensures a healthy mix of the rich and the ignorant, sir. [3F21] Homerpalooza ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/23 "2011-11-13T16:10:46Z")
We need some kind of consumer protection law, with bite. To discourage capitalists from turning ‘fees’ into revenue streams. Like, maybe, they only get to charge you the actual costs involved. So if it costs the bank 5 cents for the ATM, they don’t get to charge you $1. Or, perhaps, add a high tax on any ‘fees’ above stated prices. Both a carrot and a stick to discourage this form of predatory capitalism, minimalizing it. It’d be an impossible sell, in reality. PayDay loan places already skirt laws prohibiting 300% interest rates, by slapping ‘fees’ on. We served up the most vulnerable, in our society, (because, hey, it’s not us!), to the sharks, and looked the other way. Now, it seems, they have taken what they’ve learned and are coming for us next. Hidden service, convenience, fees, (hidden revenue streams!), would seem a likely target for the likes of OWS. Y’know if they ever identify a goal, or choose a cause or leader. Think about how many people complain about such things, daily, and with raging passion, and rightly so, they _are_ being exploited. Feels like it would be easy pickings for OWS. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/24 "2011-11-13T17:18:29Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > We live in a free market dude. Get over it.. Excellent news! Please point me toward the major competitors with TicketMaster, so that I (as an informed consumer) can take advantage of the lower prices offered by free market competition and buy my ticket at the lowest possible price. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/25 "2011-11-13T17:21:20Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > We live in a free market dude. Get over it. True. > [@Shakes](#): > > As far as TM goes: You know, I understand they need to make a profit. They don’t make a percentage of of whatever band, hockey team, etc is playing. So sure, add a reasonable service charge. > > What I DON’T appreciate is now TM, offering up their tickets to other ticket brokers (or to the layman, _scalpers_) behind the scenes before the public even has a chance to buy them!! > > That’s BS TM, you’re being payed to broker the tickets yourself. Don’t take the money and then leave the job to someone else who is going to mark up the price even further. We live in a free market dude. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/26 "2011-11-13T17:27:30Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Excellent news! Please point me toward the major competitors with TicketMaster, so that I (as an informed consumer) can take advantage of the lower prices offered by free market competition and buy my ticket at the lowest possible price. Well, the scalpers are competition. And you can get your ticket directly from the venue, as the OP notes. But I don’t think people buying tickets are really the customers of Ticketmaster. Ticketmaster is a service that the _venue_ uses to sell tickets online. They’re the ones that hold chose the service that gets to sell their tickets. The reason that Ticketmaster is able to put such a high mark-up is because the venues undercharge (probably for the reasons **Enderw** notes, venues want to fill the stadium, even if it costs them money), so that Ticketmaster can charge more and still sell all the tickets ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/27 "2011-11-13T17:36:21Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Excellent news! Please point me toward the major competitors with TicketMaster, so that I (as an informed consumer) can take advantage of the lower prices offered by free market competition and buy my ticket at the lowest possible price. The problem is that, despite economists’ claims about the way competition works, the fact is that free market principles often lead to a complete absence of competition. If you allow a bunch of companies to compete, there sometimes comes a point where one company wins that competition to such an extent that it gains an effective monopoly, like TicketMaster has now. This poses something of a problem for supporters of the free market, because one of the cherished myths about the free market is that it will basically always offer consumers better information and better choices than a regulated market. According to the free market argument, if one company gains market dominance, it won’t be too long until other companies find and exploit inefficiencies in order to restore competition. Thing is, though, that doesn’t always happen, because in some areas of the economy the barriers to entry are high enough that other companies don’t step in to compete. One thing i wonder, though, is what ticket prices would look like in a world without TicketMaster. If every venue had to sell its own tickets, then every venue would also need to pay for the infrastructure required to sell those tickets. In this day and age, that means a system for online selling. For a 2,000-person music venue with no assigned seating, that _might_ not be too difficult, but for a 2,000-seat theater or a 10,000-seat concert venue or a 70,000-seat football stadium, you need a fairly sophisticated web interface, one that keeps track of which seats are sold and which are available, that allows buyers to make choices about where to sit, and that is sophisticated enough to do things like offer the best available seats to someone viewing the site. All of this stuff is currently taken care of by TicketMaster, and if each venue had to do it separately, you can be sure that the cost of implementing their own internet sales system would be passed on to the consumer through rising ticket costs. Web programmers don’t come cheap. At the moment, we see those costs in the form of “convenience” fees and such at TicketMaster, but if the fees were hidden in the cost of the ticket itself they wouldn’t be any less real. I’m making a sort of devil’s advocate argument here, because i hate TicketBastard as much as anyone, but if we accept that the infrastructure required to sell tickets costs money, then does it matter whether we customers pay for that in the cost of the ticket, or in visible fees and charges? It’s a bit like airlines charging for checked baggage. It used to be hidden in the ticket cost; now it’s been disaggregated and constitutes a separate charge. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/28 "2011-11-13T18:54:11Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The problem is that, despite economists’ claims about the way competition works, the fact is that free market principles often lead to a complete absence of competition. None of the economists I know are as dumb as you are implying here. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/29 "2011-11-13T19:48:52Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > One thing i wonder, though, is what ticket prices would look like in a world without TicketMaster. If every venue had to sell its own tickets, then every venue would also need to pay for the infrastructure required to sell those tickets. In this day and age, that means a system for online selling. For a 2,000-person music venue with no assigned seating, that _might_ not be too difficult, but for a 2,000-seat theater or a 10,000-seat concert venue or a 70,000-seat football stadium, you need a fairly sophisticated web interface, one that keeps track of which seats are sold and which are available, that allows buyers to make choices about where to sit, and that is sophisticated enough to do things like offer the best available seats to someone viewing the site. In a world without a Ticketmaster monopoly, venues could sell their tickets through the on-line vendor that offers them the best deal. Ideally venues would offer tickets through multiple vendors so that consumers could choose the one with the lowest cost. Or venues could use a ticket-selling web service like many small brick and mortar stores do to set up on-line stores with little work. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/30 "2011-11-13T20:11:08Z")
> [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](#): > > None of the economists I know are as dumb as you are implying here. Probably not. Maybe i should have said “free market ideologues” rather than economists. But even among the economists, the model generally assumes (and often explicitly states) that a monopoly can’t and won’t last because it will, by its very nature, create inefficiencies in the market that will, in turn, be jumped on by new entrants into the field. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/31 "2011-11-13T21:03:43Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Because stadiums run on a business model like everyone else: determine where supply meets demand and sell at that price. Scalpers run on a slightly different model: what’s the absolute most I can get any individual buyer to pay for my ticket? Both are obviously trying to sell all the tickets they have in their possession but the scalpers aren’t trying to fill up the stadium, whereas the event is. Sure, you _could_ have the stadium sell every concert ticket for $250 rather than $100 and you’d get rid of scalpers completely. You’d also be left with a ton of tickets left over because demand just plummeted. And to be all economic and everything, scalpers can price discriminate. The venue cannot, either legally or practically. Part of the job of the scalper (as opposed to an online reseller) is to judge the price sensitivity as applies to an individual purchaser. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/32 "2011-11-13T21:17:11Z")
Presumably scalpers drive up the cost of all tickets because it creates a scarcity. The scalpers also take an additional risk that they may not sell all their tickets, so in return for that risk they earn a premium. In that sense they provide a service: to the venue by driving up prices and assuming some of the risk of hosting an event, and to the consumer by not making them stand in-line and by enabling consumers to make a decision closer to the performance date as to whether they want to (and are able) to attend. I think I will now take a shower. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/33 "2011-11-13T23:37:12Z")
> [@AWB](#): > > the sale was processed through TicketBastard! This happened to me just yesterday on StubHub. Is this a new or widespread practice by StubHub (and if it is, I may go back to eBay for tickets)? I ended up paying three fees, one to StubHub and two (as everyone knows they are notorious for stacking fees) to TM, including $4.95 for “electronic delivery.” WTF. As I think about it, I’m gonna go write a strongly-worded complaint to SH. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/34 "2011-11-14T00:03:39Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > As far as TM goes: You know, I understand they need to make a profit. They don’t make a percentage of of whatever band, hockey team, etc is playing. So sure, add a reasonable service charge. > > What I DON’T appreciate is now TM, offering up their tickets to other ticket brokers (or to the layman, _scalpers_) behind the scenes before the public even has a chance to buy them!! > > That’s BS TM, you’re being payed to broker the tickets yourself. Don’t take the money and then leave the job to someone else who is going to mark up the price even further. > > Also, advertisers: Don’t claim to have tickets for sale at X amount when you know there is going to be a 50% mark up at the POS. It’s borderline false advertising. > > Shakes. > Former ticket scalper. > [@mhendo](#): > > True.We live in a free market dude. Get over it. I’d agree, but since TM doesn’t offer to selll tickects to ALL interested buyers, it isn’t exactly a free market. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/35 "2011-11-14T00:04:44Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > We live in a free market dude. Get over it. > > As far as TM goes: You know, I understand they need to make a profit. They don’t make a percentage of of whatever band, hockey team, etc is playing. So sure, add a reasonable service charge. I don’t understand why they need to exist at all, or if they do, why their model is what it is. Look, I’m a hard cope free markey capitalist guy, but Ticketmaster is pure, unadulterated anticompetitive monopolizing. It’s profiteering, straight up. That they remain legal can only be accounted for by bribery. [QUOTe=sh1bu1] Presumably scalpers drive up the cost of all tickets because it creates a scarcity. [/QUOTE] Not necessarily; it depends on the venue and event. In a lot of cases scalpers are reselling unused season and block sale tickets, and if demand is low enough you can buy from them at prices LOWER than face value, thereby getting tickets that would otherwise be unavailable for less than you’d pay even if they were (they’re getting them from season ticket holders for even less.) This sort of thing is pretty routine in Toronto, where ticket scalping is de facto legal. For weekday Blue Jay games against shitty opponents, you get great deals from scalpers; I can pick up $75 seats for $40-$50. Raptors tickets can also be had now for below face value. For weekend games or premium opponents, though, demand drives the price past face value. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/36 "2011-11-14T01:42:49Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Probably not. Maybe i should have said “free market ideologues” rather than economists. That would be accurate, yes. > [@](#): > > But even among the economists, the model generally assumes (and often explicitly states) that a monopoly can’t and won’t last because it will, by its very nature, create inefficiencies in the market that will, in turn, be jumped on by new entrants into the field. Which model? Which economists? Seriously, none of the ones I know are this dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/37 "2011-11-14T01:59:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Also, $65.32 + $6.11 = $71.43, not $72.43. Did they snag an extra dollar from you? That was the “ink charge” for using your own printer. ---
**Author:** ![JessMagic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c0e974/32.png) [@JessMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JessMagic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/38 "2011-11-14T02:26:21Z")
Hate Ticketmaster UK. When they fuck up, they just apologise, and apologise, and apologise. They never provide a decent solution. Nor do they listen to your constructive suggestions about how they can change their policy for the better. The only way to make a complaint is via snail mail (seriously?). I don’t want an apology, I just want the tickets that I bought from you! Paid for four Take That tickets (not for me, for a friend - honest). Three were delivered, about a week before the event. The fourth had erroneously been sent to the people in the seats next to mine. Their solution? Not “we’ll print another copy of the ticket, and cancel the one that’s been sent out to the wrong person”. It was “we’re sorry. We’re trying to contact the other party. Hopefully(!), if we can get in touch with them, they’ll post the ticket back to us, then we can post it out to you.” It got sorted, thanks to the honesty of the other person, in the nick of time, but jeez. They’re tied to this policy of posting tickets out about a week before the event. It just gets people worried. Plus, they’ll only post to your credit card address, which, if like me you live alone but move around a lot for work, is an added hassle. They’ve really put me off going to concerts. ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/39 "2011-11-14T02:32:58Z")
I wouldn’t mind Ticketmaster so much if they actually told you the price you’ll be paying for the tickets. Telling you a ticket costs $50 when it really costs you $75 is false advertising, and I don’t know how they get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714/40 "2011-11-14T03:25:43Z")
Won’t argue with the OP about the dickishness of Ticketmaster. I look forward to the day someone manages to bury it and piss on its grave. But why not just buy the tickets the day of the event? Or is minor league hockey in San Antonio regularly a soldout attraction? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ticketbastard/602714.md?page=3)