TicketBastard

[kaylasdad99]

Seems like you’re more of a Bears fan…

[RickJay]

@Cubsfan

?

You have seen the electronic scales that have been at the check in counter for 30 years or so haven’t you? They can sell me grapes/lb why not charge for baggage/lb?

1. It’d add complication to the ticketing system, which in the airline industry is generally fourteen years behind general computing technology and takes eons to fix. The scale ain’t attached to anything; it just displays a weight. It’s not hooked to the computer, and the computer has no system in it except “overweight” or “not overweight.”

2. Because it would make an airport even more of a living hell than it currently is. Have you ever been in line behind a person with a 53-pound bag? I have, and it’s a ridiculous scramble to rearrange everything.

If you started charging for every pound I bet dollars to donuts you’d have ten times as many scrambles at every baggage counter as people yanked shit out of their bags and jammed them into pockets or wore them. You’d have people dragging larger and larger carry-ons onto the plane with them - something that’s already a huge headache, inasmuch as some people appear to think any bag with wheels is valid as carry-on.

If the over/under 50 thing perfect? No, but it’s better than “a bag.” In fact, technically you really have four price levels now:

1. Carryon, which is free.
2. A bag under 50, which is X.
3. A bag over 50, which is >X.
4. Special/overdimensional luggage, which can have its own price.

Plus you have airlines/deals where bags Y aren’t charged at all if they’re under 50, and so on.

Want to add more? I guess you could.

[suranyi]

@RickJay

While that’s true, in the case of luggage you can at least make the argument that the airline is providing a service by transporting something for you, and it does indeed cost money to carry your bags - not in space, but in fuel. Yes, they’re charging you the same for your 21-pound bag they charged me for my 24-pound bag, but there’s a practical limit to how fine they can slice the issue (and in fact they do charge more for unusually heavy bags, so there is, technically, a weight charge.)

Furthermore, the simple fact is that the price of air travel is lower than it used to be. It bounces up and down but, over time, the trend line has been inexporably downward. When you adjust for inflation, you are not, in fact, paying more to fly. You’re paying less. The airlines aren’t gouging you; they’re restructuring their fares.

And of course, there’s the rather critical point that no airline is a monopoly. If you don’t like Delta charging you for bags, fly United. I know it’s easier to fly one airline or another depending on where you are and where you’re going but there are always options. If charging for bags was that onerous a thing, airlines would compete by offering deals on it. So while its true “They charge you because they can,” they “can” charge anything. They could charge you $1000 for water. They don’t, because while it’s theoretically possible, the competitive nature of air travel keeps their prices down.

I cannot imagine what complaint people could possibly have with airline prices, to be honest. They’re sensationally affordable. I fly to Florida every year, direct, and have never paid a cent more than $250 a seat for a return ticket. That’s the high end price; one year it was $160 a head, with all taxes and fees included. This is from Buffalo-Niagara, not Atlanta. My flight from Toronto to California and back again next week cost me, return, everything in, about five hundred dollars. That’s damn cheap to be transported across the continent and back again. If they hit me up for $6 for a sandwich I frankly don’t really care.

Ticketmaster

1. Provides you with nothing you couldn’t have bought when venues sold tickets themselves,

2. Inserts themselves into transactions in which they aren’t needed, through openly anticompetitive deals, and

3. Charges prices exorbitantly higher than any concievable free market rationalization could justify.

They are simply a flat-out monopoly. How they get away with it I quite honestly don’t understand, and I really have tried to understand it.

Well, item 1 isn’t strictly true.

Before Ticketmaster or any of its predecessor companies, the only way to buy tickets was to go to the venue box office.

Even way before the onset of the Internet, if you bought a ticket elsewhere, such as at a record store, it was Ticketmaster or Ticketron that set up the off-site purchasing system.

So if the convenience of not having to go to the venue means anything, then TM did provide a service even back when nobody had computers yet.

(This is not to disagree with the main point which is that their fees are exhorbitant.)

[Lynn_Bodoni]

Before Ticketmaster or any of its predecessor companies, the only way to buy tickets was to go to the venue box office.

Even back in the pre-internet days, it was possible to call the venue and purchase the tickets with a credit card. Even in another city. Now, you’d have to keep trying to get through the phone lines, but it was possible to do this. You had to show ID to pick up the tickets, but you could buy the tickets without going to the box office.

I’m amazed that someone doesn’t write a program and sell it to venues, where they could sell tickets online without going through TM.

[Shade]

@villa

I kind of like the taxes being shown separately. I like the government not being able to try to hide their revenue raising from the purchaser. Now where it is revenue going actually to the provider, I can get on board.

I think it should be allowed (and as far as I know, everywhere in the world where there are any restrictions on how prices are advertised, it is allowed, and no-one has ever in any way ever suggested restricting it for any reason) for anyone to show a breakdown of the price in any way they think is useful (so long as it’s not deliberately false).

What I’m saying is that the total you actually pay should be clearly shown as soon as it’s practicable, and normally shown larger than all the other “prices” on an item, and not have fees which are sometimes ten thousand times[1] more than the price but are only revealed when you’ve gone through several steps of the purchase process.

Obviously there’s some judgement call on what fees the company is obliged to handle. For instance, anything where there’s a tax specific to the customer’s location, and the company has nothing to do with it, but the customer’s responsibility is to pay it off their own bat, then no, they needn’t include it. But if it’s fees or taxes that apply to every item, and they know perfectly well how much they are, but deliberately quote an artificially low price to try to trick people into getting committed to buying something without being able to actually compare the prices.

Yes, they should be able to charge what they like, but if a saleman constantly says “come here, great deal, only $x” and then “oh, sorry, my mistake, actually its $xxxx” every time, then all it does is (1) mean that everyone has to waste hours of their lives trying to figure out whether the product is worth the actual cost. People would presumably just refuse if they were told up-front “ok, you can buy it, but you’ll have to wait around arguing for an hour before I tell you the price.” And (2) it’s anti-capitalism, because it makes it effectively impossible for companies to compete on price, only on how much they lie.

[1] Not an exaggeration!

[doreen]

@Lynn_Bodoni

I’m amazed that someone doesn’t write a program and sell it to venues, where they could sell tickets online without going through TM.

Some places do ( or did). The last time I bought Met tickets on line, the sale did not go through Ticketmaster. It’s been a few years, so it might have changed, but I doubt it since I can definitely still get Met tickets over the phone, through the mail or in person (at multiple locations) without going through Ticketmaster.

[Yookeroo]

@RickJay

2. Because it would make an airport even more of a living hell than it currently is. Have you ever been in line behind a person with a 53-pound bag? I have, and it’s a ridiculous scramble to rearrange everything.

If you started charging for every pound I bet dollars to donuts you’d have ten times as many scrambles at every baggage counter as people yanked shit out of their bags and jammed them into pockets or wore them. You’d have people dragging larger and larger carry-ons onto the plane with them - something that’s already a huge headache, inasmuch as some people appear to think any bag with wheels is valid as carry-on.

I suppose it would depend on what the price/mass rate actually was, but I’d think we’d get fewer re-arrangers in a price/mass system. The person who is a few pounds over probably won’t be rearranging things to avoid a 6% increase in bag fees. I’ve done the re-arrange scramble to move a few pounds out of the bag. I wouldn’t have done that just to save 6%.

Actually, if this was the norm & the technology made it easy (your first point is definitely valid), I think this would speed up the process.

Oh, and to get out of the highjack, Ticketmaster does suck.

[Naxos]

@AWB

Instead of the $48 (plus any understandable sales tax), the total came to over $70. WTF!?

Two $125 tickets for a concert in a venue with an about 40,000 capacity ended up being $305 with “facility” and “mailing” fees. They would be $320 if I wanted to print the tickets at home.

They are criminals and have the political back up to keep on fleecing everyone.

[RTFirefly]

@RickJay

1. It’d add complication to the ticketing system,

What does this have to do with the ticketing system? You bought and paid for your ticket before you were asked to provide any info about your luggage.

They hit you up with the per-bag charge at the airport, and you’re charged separately. They could do the same with a weight charge.

The scale ain’t attached to anything; it just displays a weight. It’s not hooked to the computer, and the computer has no system in it except “overweight” or “not overweight.”

You can hook it up to the computer (they do this in every grocery store, how complicated is it?) or you could just have the check-in person read the scale and enter the number into the computer. Either way, have the computer sum up the weights, multiply total weight by $X.XX, add any applicable taxes, and produce a total.

2. Because it would make an airport even more of a living hell than it currently is. Have you ever been in line behind a person with a 53-pound bag? I have, and it’s a ridiculous scramble to rearrange everything.

This problem is caused by the discontinuity in pricing at 50 pounds.

In more everyday English, it is because that 51 pound bag is a LOT MORE EXPENSIVE than a 49-pound bag, typically at least another $25. Nobody wants to pay $25 for that 2 lousy pounds.

But if you’re charging, say, a buck a pound, they’re paying $2 for those 2 pounds, same as any other 2 pounds. People who wanted to minimize weight charges would learn to put small but heavy items in their carry-ons when packing at home; others would just pay.

If you started charging for every pound I bet dollars to donuts you’d have ten times as many scrambles at every baggage counter as people yanked shit out of their bags and jammed them into pockets or wore them.

And I bet not, for the reasons given above.

You’d have people dragging larger and larger carry-ons onto the plane with them - something that’s already a huge headache, inasmuch as some people appear to think any bag with wheels is valid as carry-on.

And maybe the airlines would get a clue, forget about charging for checked luggage, and instead charge for their genuinely scarce resource (other than seats) - space in the overhead bins. People will all but come to blows over space in the overhead bins; it makes more sense to just price it at a level where the overhead bins are usually mostly full.

If the over/under 50 thing perfect? No, but it’s better than “a bag.” In fact, technically you really have four price levels now:

1. Carryon, which is free.
2. A bag under 50, which is X.
3. A bag over 50, which is >X.
4. Special/overdimensional luggage, which can have its own price.

Or you could just replace 2 and 3 with “A bag weighing X pounds, which costs $KX” for whatever per-pound rate K that the airline chooses to charge.

[Lynn_Bodoni]

And maybe the airlines would get a clue, forget about charging for checked luggage, and instead charge for their genuinely scarce resource (other than seats) - space in the overhead bins. People will all but come to blows over space in the overhead bins; it makes more sense to just price it at a level where the overhead bins are usually mostly full.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, and I’m someone who is always taking the max amount of carry-on. Carry-on luggage space is ALWAYS at a premium. What’s more, stowing and removing carry-on luggage takes more time, it seems, than loading and unloading the regular luggage. I always put all my medicine and my CPAP in my carry-on luggage, which takes up quite a bit of room. I would also enjoy being able to take more stuff on the plane with me, but I feel that I’m taking up enough carry on luggage space. Theoretically, any bag with my medicine and medical supplies is supposed to not count against my carry-on limits…but practically, I know that the space will be cramped.

[Mr.Zheng]

I am a firm believer in paying the price that is advertised. If the tickets are $12, then this is what I am willing to pay. Don’t say $12 plus “fees”. That’s bullshit. Instead of $12 plus $7 in fees just say $19. This is the true price of the ticket. Ticketbastard’s fees are incredible in scope, venue fee, processing fee, convenience fee. There is (probably) a fee if one wants to pick up the tickets at the door and another one if Ticketbastard mails them/sends them online.

Back the good old days, pre-internet 1980’s when I was a teen, I wanted to see some shows, but getting tickets were so agonizing. For one thing, the huge lines in getting the tickets themselves. Sorry, but even as a teen, I did not see the value and thought it was unsafe/illegal to just sleep in front of a ticket office all night. The venue never seems to have enough people to actually sell the tickets themselves, which caused huge lines to form. I rather resent to have to stand in a long, slow line to buy something. The venue should provide enough people to sell the tickets. Getting tickets is such a bother to me that I have not seen a concert in probably 25 years. I dont really miss the experience. The last show I went to was in Vegas in 1991 (sone crappy hair band that was famous for a season), and the crowd was actually patted down before getting in. Fuck that.

I dont see anything wrong with baggage fees as long as the airline states this upfront when the ticket is bought. A dollar a pound or whatever after 20 pounds. Someone who brings everything but the kitchen sink should pay the extra fee.

Lastly, in the country where I am living in currently, the four and five star restaurants sell fancy meals/buffets, with this kind of pricing…100 Yen plus 15% service charge. They all do this. No one tips here and I severely dobt that the help keeps this 15%, and to me, again is unnecessay. State the price of the product or service you are selling! If its $115, its $115, not $100 plus 15% percent. Annoying.

[Morgenstern]

If I were to stand outside the arena, and offer to sell my tickets to the particular event, with a “service fee” and a “convenience fee” added, I’ll bet I’d be arrested for scalping. And my service would be way more convenient than theirs.

[UltraVires]

@Shade

I think it should be allowed (and as far as I know, everywhere in the world where there are any restrictions on how prices are advertised, it is allowed, and no-one has ever in any way ever suggested restricting it for any reason) for anyone to show a breakdown of the price in any way they think is useful (so long as it’s not deliberately false).

What I’m saying is that the total you actually pay should be clearly shown as soon as it’s practicable, and normally shown larger than all the other “prices” on an item, and not have fees which are sometimes ten thousand times[1] more than the price but are only revealed when you’ve gone through several steps of the purchase process.

Obviously there’s some judgement call on what fees the company is obliged to handle. For instance, anything where there’s a tax specific to the customer’s location, and the company has nothing to do with it, but the customer’s responsibility is to pay it off their own bat, then no, they needn’t include it. But if it’s fees or taxes that apply to every item, and they know perfectly well how much they are, but deliberately quote an artificially low price to try to trick people into getting committed to buying something without being able to actually compare the prices.

Yes, they should be able to charge what they like, but if a saleman constantly says “come here, great deal, only $x” and then “oh, sorry, my mistake, actually its $xxxx” every time, then all it does is (1) mean that everyone has to waste hours of their lives trying to figure out whether the product is worth the actual cost. People would presumably just refuse if they were told up-front “ok, you can buy it, but you’ll have to wait around arguing for an hour before I tell you the price.” And (2) it’s anti-capitalism, because it makes it effectively impossible for companies to compete on price, only on how much they lie.

[1] Not an exaggeration!

Agreed. A perfect example from this weekend. A hotel room service item was prominently priced at $45. In small type at the bottom it stated that every order was subject to a 15%GST, plus 17% gratuity, plus a 3 dollar service charge.

That comes to $63.55, when the lying bastards put $45 in prominent numbering. Those taxes and fees were known before the menu was printed. The only possible reason for structuring it that way was to snare a customer who wasn’t paying attention to buy the $63.55 meal when he thought it was $45. It is false and misleading and I can’t think of a single reason why truth in advertising laws shouldn’t apply to this type of thing.

[johnpost]

time to get some value back due to class action suit in the works.

if you bought tickets from Ticketmaster website between October 21, 1999 and October 19, 2011, you get $1.50 back per ticket (up to 17). expedited tickets can get additional $5 per ticket.

value is in the form of a voucher for future ticket purchases. limit of two vouchers used per purchase.

they can continue charging the same fees though they need to state the terms more clearly.

[Gedd]

Justice! Even if it is a tiny amount.

Now who still has the receipt for a ticket they bought 12 years ago?

[DoctorJ]

Yesterday I bought two tickets to see Ryan Adams at the Taft Theatre in Cincinnati. They had a one-day-early presale for the fan club.

I was online the minute the tickets went on sale. For ten minutes it repeatedly told me that there were no tickets available anywhere at any price. Apparently you could only buy single tickets, and that was only if you were lucky. Finally it let me through to get my two tickets in the back corner of the lower level. Lots of people who bought tickets today got much better seats.

For this competence I paid nearly $30 in service fees for $80 worth of tickets.

The days when Eddie Vedder was railing against Ticketmaster were a golden age.

[mhendo]

One thing that really gets me about these class action lawsuits is that, in many cases, they don’t really punish the company because they actually drive more business back to the company through a system of vouchers rather than cash payouts. That’s what this particular settlement, as described by johnpost, seems to do.

A few years ago, when Netflix settled a class action lawsuit for throttling disc mailing to high-volume customers, the “payout” was in the form of an extra DVD for a month, on top of your usual plan. So, if you had a 3-disc-at-a-time plan, then for one month you would get four at a time, at no extra cost.

The catch was that, at the end of the month, this “upgrade” would become permanent, and you would be charged for the extra disc going forward. So the “penalty” of settling a class-action lawsuit for shady business practices was that Netflix were compelled to engage in a stealth opt-out marketing campaign against their own customers.

Brilliant! If you’re Netflix, anyway. Not so good for the customers.

[Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew]

@mhendo

One thing that really gets me about these class action lawsuits is that, in many cases, they don’t really punish the company because they actually drive more business back to the company through a system of vouchers rather than cash payouts. That’s what this particular settlement, as described by johnpost, seems to do.

Yes, this one is just offering a tiny bit of lube for the next time you bend over for Ticketbastard.

[Commander_Fortune]

@Gedd

Justice! Even if it is a tiny amount.

Now who still has the receipt for a ticket they bought 12 years ago?

I have every ticket stub for every concert I’ve ever attended. Isn’t that a receipt?

[Spiderman]

@Commander_Fortune

I have every ticket stub for every concert I’ve ever attended. Isn’t that a receipt?

Probably not, because it doesn’t show that you went, that you paid for it, or that it was bought thru TB.

While I think they’re overcharging bastards, the thing that really gets me is the charge to print at home, for using my ink & my paper, when they charge you *less *for them to mail them to you, when they are using their resources, postage, & labor.

The whatever-they’re-calling-it-this-week concert venue in Camden charges a fee to buy them there. WTF, you advertise tickets for $x, yet there is nowhere I can get them for that price; how is that not false advertising?