# Ties between rising divorce rates and women's rights? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 24, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340 "2008-11-24T22:22:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340/41 "2008-11-25T16:20:33Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I agree Then what the heck is this: > [@](#): > > What was asked was a correlation between the women’s lib movement and divorce, is there any doubt in anyone’s mind that such a statistical correlation exists? That both has risen together, as that’s all that a statistical correlation means. Does anyone have any doubt that at this time these things also have similar trends such as the rise of broken families, infertility problems, reduction in the number of children, increased childhood disorders, increased abortion, increased promiscuity, increased human control over our and our pets reproductive systems, etc. ? ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340/42 "2008-11-25T16:27:01Z")
Oh, fer pete’s sake. We can measure women’s rights in lots of ways. 1. We can look at actual legislation. Do women have the right in various jurisdictions to own property, vote, divorce, etc.? 2. We can look at people’s attitudes about women’s rights. The standard questions from the General Social Survey ask whether respondents agree with the following: A) working mothers hurt children, B) wives should help their husbands careers first, C) preschool children suffer if their mothers work, D) it’s better for men to work and women to tend the home. There are others used, but these are pretty consistent in the literature. (However, the career help question was dropped a few years ago because there’s not so much variation in opinion these days.) 1. We can look at what women actually do. Do women have similar patterns to men in educational attainment, labor force participation, earnings? This one is of course tricky, because you have to make an argument about whether differences are due to social limitations or biology, and well, that particular discussion isn’t going to come to a conclusion anytime soon. 2. I know we’re big on statistics around here, but there is always the option of qualitative research and asking women and men how they actual perceive and understand women’s rights, freedoms, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340/43 "2008-11-25T16:28:24Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I’ve often wondered (to the criticism of my wife calling me a male chavinist pig) if women’s rights and their increase in the workplace has contributed also to a higer cost of living for families. > It seems in days past a middle class family could exsist on the father working, the mother staying home, and 3-4 children supported. > Nowdays for a middle class family to exist and have 2-3 children both parents need to work. I’ve always understood that it was primarily a matter of wages not keeping up with inflation over time. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340/44 "2008-11-25T16:43:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’ve always understood that it was primarily a matter of wages not keeping up with inflation over time. I’m not disagreeing with you, because I suspect it is true. Do you have a good link to an analysis of this? ETA: I mean wages vs inflation not the divorce thing. ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340/45 "2008-11-25T16:52:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’ve always understood that it was primarily a matter of wages not keeping up with inflation over time. Two factors - (men’s) real wages have been stagnant since the early 70s, but consumer expenditure grew substantially during the 70s and 80s. We buy a lot more stuff than folks did in the post-WWII era. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340/46 "2008-11-25T17:02:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Actually, at least one person doubts. If you read Wendell Wagner’s earlier post (#16), you’ll see that divorce rates are now dropping. Absent any evidence of increased opression of women over the last 25 years, there’s no correlation. Of course, there are a lot of other potential factors - perhaps women now don’t feel a need to get married in the first place, for example, or the nature of married relationships has changed for the better, or any number of things that could be related to the issue as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340/47 "2008-11-25T17:42:08Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Of course, there are a lot of other potential factors - perhaps women now don’t feel a need to get married in the first place, for example, or the nature of married relationships has changed for the better, or any number of things that could be related to the issue as a whole. I think the divorce rate is measured per marriage, rather than per capita, so your first factor is a non-factor, so to speak. But anyway, the point is simply that the correlation only exists in people’s heads. > [@](#): > > Two factors - (men’s) real wages have been stagnant since the early 70s, but consumer expenditure grew substantially during the 70s and 80s. We buy a lot more stuff than folks did in the post-WWII era. Plus, rising (okay, skyrocketing) income inequality- while total earnings may be quite close to keeping up with inflation, they’re grossly concentrated at the top of the chart now as opposed to 50 years ago. Thus, while our earnings may be close to parity with our grandparents’ (as a nation), our earnings (as individuals) are generally not. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340/48 "2008-11-25T23:43:16Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It goes to trying to control something in human efforts that God has provided for. Putting self over God, and disrespecting the creation process that God has established. Trying to institute a ‘new order of things’ by manipulating others and their natural environment. Using this brand of logic, clearly, you are putting yourself over God and disrespecting the creation process that God established every time you: - take an aspirin - turn on a light - start your car - wear clothing with artificial fibers - eat any produce that was grown with artificial fertilizers, pesticides, or genetic manipulation - eat any produce that wasn’t grown within about 15 miles of your home - store anything in a refrigerator - wear a watch - get vaccinated - listen or watch a recording - go outside without covering your hair And clearly, since most of these inventions came about in the last two centuries or so, they also bear a statistical correlation to social phenomena like divorce, women’s rights, and the break up of the family. Don’t forget that the creation process that God established also includes delightful things like smallpox, starvation, death in childbirth, and intestinal parasites. Who in their wisdom would usurp God’s authority in bestowing such blessings on us? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340/49 "2008-11-26T03:55:02Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > THe OP was asking about a correlation between divorce rates and women’s lib, I just expanded it to other aspects that seem to have a correlation, and adding why I believe the it to be true, just as the OP did. [Moderating] **Kanicbird** , your posts are not addressing the OP as stated. If you wish to expand the discussion, or get into the religious aspects of the question, start a new thread in GD. [QUOTE=kanicbird] So what you ask, though possible to get, would be meaningless. [/QUOTE] If you believe this, you can’t contribute anything meaningful to giving a GQ answer to the OP, so please take it elsewhere. I also request that other posters not engage in arguing with **kanicbird** here, which will merely serve to completely hijack this thread. If you want to refute the arguments, please start a new thread in GD and link to it here. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340/50 "2008-11-26T17:53:18Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Of course, there are a lot of other potential factors - perhaps women now don’t feel a need to get married in the first place, for example, or the nature of married relationships has changed for the better, or any number of things that could be related to the issue as a whole. When I was a child, girls assumed that they could get married, become a teacher, become a nurse, and, if their religion so allowed, they could become a nun/sister. Those were their ONLY choices for a career (and yes, becoming a wife/mother was considered a career). Girls were told that no, they couldn’t become a scientist, a doctor, an engineer, even if there were rare exceptions. Many years ago, teachers and nurses had to be SINGLE…getting married meant the end of a woman’s career. Later on, it became acceptable for a woman to have a job outside the home, as long as she performed her household duties acceptably. My daughter is 29, and she’s in an IT position. She dates, but has no plans to marry and/or have children. This would have been completely unthinkable a few decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ro\_Carter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7feea3/32.png) [@Ro\_Carter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ro_Carter)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340/51 "2008-11-26T19:51:49Z")
Thank you all for the informative responses so far, particularly **BetsQ** for the posted link. Also, judging from some of the responses, maybe I should have tried to put together a GD thread instead… I’m getting that there are some associated issues that people would like to have a go at. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ties-between-rising-divorce-rates-and-womens-rights/474340.md?page=2)