# Tiger Farming, Reasonable? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871 "2009-05-09T20:05:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/61 "2009-05-15T18:46:29Z")
**mswas** , how do game reserves stifle competition? Game on a reserve only goes to market as a result of poaching. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/62 "2009-05-15T19:16:29Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Where do you think these tiger farms would be? Aren’t most places where people use Tiger parts in East Asia where the Tigers are? So far, people have mentioned Taiwan, China, and Texas. All of these places, according to other posters have no wild tiger populations at this time. I have no idea if this is true or not. Except Texas, which I’m pretty sure about. My understanding is that most wild tigers live in India. > [@mswas](#): > > Heh actually there is an opium shortage worldwide so legal morphine producers shouldn’t be destroying farms in Afghanistan, they should be contracting with them. No argument there. It’s been my contention for the better part of a decade that poppy cultivation for the pharmaceutical industry would be a great boon for the Afghan economy and probably help regional stability. You said “Legal tiger farms will then help to catch poachers…” I pointed out that legal opium farms don’t help to catch illegal opium growers. Now you say they should contract with them instead. I agree. However this has nothing to do with your failure to produce an example of what you say legal farmers will do. > [@mswas](#): > > And Moonshiners decreased dramatically after liquor was legalized so your argument works in my favor not yours. Corporations these days do a lot for PR and good will though. My statement has little to do with whether tiger or liquor is illegal. You said “Legal tiger farms will then help to catch poachers…” I pointed out that legal liquor producers don’t help to catch illegal moonshiners. As you point out, they do PR, though, and I guess to one could make an argument that PR helps catch moonshiners in some way, damned if I know how. If you want to call that making your point, go ahead. > [@mswas](#): > > Yea, I don’t think this is a good analogy. Neither do I. I brought it up only to deflect the potential of someone claiming it is. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/63 "2009-05-15T19:27:53Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > The value of tiger parts is driven by superstition. People could simply choose to believe that only a freshly-killed wild tiger has special magical powers, and that would end the entire plan. Given that we’re dealing with trade in illegal items, you can’t very well take your bag of powdered tiger bone down to the lab and have it tested. Don’t you suppose the majority of processed tiger parts today probably aren’t tiger at all, much less freshly-killed wild tiger? This is a product that’s significantly less verifiable than illegal drugs–if you buy a bag of oregano, you’ll find out fast that it isn’t dope. But since tiger bones don’t actually _do_ anything anyway, the placebo value of cow bones is probably equivalent. You could have a regular customer for years who never knows he’s not getting tiger. I’m sure there are wealthier consumers who buy the whole tiger, or “hide on” chunks so they know what they’re getting, but that can’t be very many. So, in other words, why bother farming tigers? Just farm pigs and sell pig parts as tiger parts (obviously, this won’t work for claws, hides, and penii, but how much of the market is that?). ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/64 "2009-05-15T20:01:00Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > \ So, in other words, why bother farming tigers? Just farm pigs and sell pig parts as tiger parts (obviously, this won’t work for claws, hides, and penii, but how much of the market is that?). I’m assuming that the traders in such commodities already have some test or trust relationship by which they acquire present supplies. Even if this is already 90% adulterant, surely they will be suspicious of your newly offered product. So first somebody has to open at least one tiger farm somewhere, to explain the new, greatly enhanced supply (whatever the price). Than you and I go in on a pig farm! _(Step 3 - wealth!)_ ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/65 "2009-05-15T20:23:25Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Than you and I go in on a pig farm! > > _(Step 3 - wealth!)_ On second thought, let’s make it zebras instead of pigs. That way, we can leave bits of pelt and say it was a white tiger. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/66 "2009-05-16T00:21:51Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > **mswas** , how do game reserves stifle competition? Game on a reserve only goes to market as a result of poaching. A reserve theoretically with some outside funding, and funding from tourism can protect the animals on the preserve by vigorously pursuing poachers. Supposedly Rwanda because of the embrace of using their Gorillas for tourism has significantly cut down on the poaching of Gorillas because the tourism industry is more lucrative. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/67 "2009-05-16T00:23:13Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > I’d just like to say that I fully support John Stossel _personally_ attempting to farm tigers. Hehe, I know where John Stossel lives. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/68 "2009-05-16T02:06:43Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > This is a product that’s significantly less verifiable than illegal drugs–if you buy a bag of oregano, you’ll find out fast that it isn’t dope. But since tiger bones don’t actually _do_ anything anyway, the placebo value of cow bones is probably equivalent. You could have a regular customer for years who never knows he’s not getting tiger. With reported ‘street values’ of up to $2000.00 per pound, serious traders have chemical tests they can perform to verify the species of the bone dust they are buying, much as serious drug dealers have test kits to verify the purity of drugs they are buying. All the more ironic since pig bones really would be as effective as tiger bones for the various remedies they are used for. But the existence of these tests does prove your theory - someone has already thought of [it](http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:U7SujgEhR5cJ:www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/fsi/article/PIIS0379073802000452/fulltext+test+for+species+of+bone&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a). You have to get up pretty early in the morning to come up with a new idea to capitalize on superstitions. > [@](#): > > Abstract > > The survival of the tiger (Panthera tigris) is seriously threatened by poaching to provide raw materials for traditional Chinese medicines (TCMs). Most highly prized are the tiger’s bones, which are used in combination with other animal and plant derivatives in pills and plasters for the treatment of rheumatism and other ailments. Hundreds of patent remedies have been produced which claim to contain tiger bone, but proof of its presence is needed if legislation prohibiting the trade in endangered species is to be enforced. > > A highly sensitive tiger-specific real-time PCR assay has been developed to address this problem. Using primers specific to the tiger mitochondrial cytochrome b gene, successful amplification has been reliably achieved from blood, hair and bone as well as from a range of TCMs spiked with 0.5% tiger bone. Although capable of detecting fewer than 10 substrate molecules, the seven varieties of TCM pills and plasters tested showed no detectable trace of tiger DNA before spiking. Furthermore, sequencing several “tiger bone” fragments seized from TCM shops has shown that they actually originated from cattle and pigs. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/69 "2009-05-16T03:19:24Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > obviously, this won’t work for claws, hides, and penii Frankly, I doubt I personally could tell a tiger penis from a boar penis when not attached to the animal (if still attached, I think I could figure it out). I bet I don’t know anybody else who could, either. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/70 "2009-05-18T12:25:58Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > But each tiger needs about 20 to 40 lbs. of meat per day for life. That’s up to 14,000 lbs. of meat per year per tiger. There is a reason they spread out and live solitary lives; they need a LOT of food. Is this correct? The latest tiger documentary I watched stated that a tiger can eat up to 30 kg of meat in one sitting, and feeds again within eight days or so. So it’d add up to app. 65 lbs. per week or about 3000 lbs. per year. Still a lot of meat and money. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/71 "2009-05-18T13:21:48Z")
See post 57. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/72 "2009-05-20T10:08:18Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > Is this correct? The latest tiger documentary I watched stated that a tiger can eat up to 30 kg of meat in one sitting, and feeds again within eight days or so. So it’d add up to app. 65 lbs. per week or about 3000 lbs. per year. Still a lot of meat and money. It depends a lot on the temperature. Tigers in cold climates need to eat more than tigers in warm climates. Naturally they don’t eat X lbs. of meat per day every day. They gorge themselves on up to 100lbs of meat or more at a sitting and then don’t eat for days at a time. Sometimes they hunt out of opportunity sooner than they might if times were tough. It obviously varies wildly depending on circumstances but 20 to 40 lbs per day averaged out over time is a description I found on several authoritative looking web sites (I will gather cites if I must but a google for “tiger diet” should probably find them among the top). A simple calculation using the highest possible of the two is bound to yield an inflated value but the point remains; tigers eat a lot compared to how much meat a slaughtered tiger could yield. In a warm climate in the wild, probably somewhere around 50 60-100 lb. sized meals or 3000-5000 lbs. per year. But I will concede that captive tigers have much lower dietary requirements since they are cooped up in small areas and don’t need to exercise to get their food so any such calculations should assume lower. But it’s still considerably more than it is worth to farm tigers for food. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871/73 "2009-05-20T13:54:59Z")
Sorry, when I wrote post 57 I failed to include a link. Here is the one I used to posit an average dietary requirement of 6 pounds per day. [link](http://cbs5.com/pets/tiger.hungry.mauling.2.757885.html) This doesn’t really change anything, of course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-farming-reasonable/495871.md?page=3)