# Tiger woods in very serious car crash **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** golf\ **Created:** [February 23, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579 "2021-02-23T19:55:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/121 "2021-02-25T02:03:22Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > **Others are arguing that simply being in an accident is in and of itself an indication of impairment** which I find absurd and is a easy position take from the comfort of your couch. Who is arguing that? What’s being put forth is that driving so poorly that you can’t manage to actually keep your car on the road is a possible warning sign of something being really wrong. The speed and recklessness displayed showed catastrophically bad judgment. It doesn’t prove he was impaired, but it certainly should be ruled out. Rescuers on the scene said he appeared to be in shock and didn’t understand the seriousness of the situation. How does that preclude impairment? > [@Omniscient](#): > > But Tiger’s a dick so fuck him I guess. I don’t think anyone is arguing based on not liking Tiger. I have no personal feelings about him at all. But I do have experience teaching driving safety to people picked up for driving offenses. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/122 "2021-02-25T02:07:19Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Rescuers on the scene said he appeared to be in shock and didn’t understand the seriousness of the situation. How does that preclude impairment? It doesn’t, but on the other hand, it’s not unusual for someone immediately after a severe injury to not be aware of just how bad it is, in denial, and so forth - it’s a defense mechanism. Adrenalin suppresses perception of pain, loss of blood can trigger shock reactions, etc. That sort of reaction doesn’t rule impairment either in or out. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/123 "2021-02-25T02:07:25Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > But it appears that at least in California _this_ particular incident does not _per se_ trigger a test mandate. Got it. Thank you. My experience driving has been in Massachusetts and Nebraska. I vastly prefer the experience in the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/124 "2021-02-25T02:08:30Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Who is arguing that? @Omniscient has now demolished a good half dozen arguments in this thread with ruthless rebuttals, heroically undeterred by the fact that nobody _made_ those arguments. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/125 "2021-02-25T02:14:42Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@needscoffee](#): > > > > Rescuers on the scene said he appeared to be in shock and didn’t understand the seriousness of the situation. How does that preclude impairment? > > It doesn’t, but on the other hand, it’s not unusual for someone immediately after a severe injury to not be aware of just how bad it is, in denial, and so forth - it’s a defense mechanism. Adrenalin suppresses perception of pain, loss of blood can trigger shock reactions, etc. That sort of reaction doesn’t rule impairment either in or out Yes, that’s exactly what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/126 "2021-02-25T02:31:33Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > The speed and recklessness displayed showed catastrophically bad judgment. Do you have facts that the rest of us aren’t aware of? How fast was he going? What poor judgment did he display? You’re just speculating and making character assessments based on nothing but bias against him. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/127 "2021-02-25T02:34:23Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I don’t think anyone is arguing based on not liking Tiger. Clearly you haven’t read the thread. There’s at least two dozen comments about how people dislike him, think he’s an asshole and assume that he’s a pill popping lunatic who thinks the rules don’t apply to him. Since we have no other facts besides the outcome, there are a lot of very strong opinions that the guy is basically guilty of any number of crimes regardless. I’d say the bias and presumptions are crystal clear. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/128 "2021-02-25T02:38:12Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I’d say the bias and presumptions are crystal clear. Yes.   ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/129 "2021-02-25T02:40:58Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > You’re just speculating and making character assessments based on nothing but bias against him. LOL! I don’t dislike him, in fact, I admire his accomplishments. You’re grasping here. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/130 "2021-02-25T02:43:10Z")
Answer the question above then. What facts are you basing your presumptions on? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/131 "2021-02-25T02:53:51Z")
_Every_ news report I saw said he was reported to be going at a much greater than normal speed. He was going fast enough to run himself across the road and down a hillside. That’s poor judgment by definition. Are you trying to say it was good judgment? Normal judgment? How many times have you lost control of your car in good weather, crossed the median and 2 lanes of oncoming traffic, and gone down a hillside? I’m getting the feeling that you’re a bit biased. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/132 "2021-02-25T03:23:21Z")
The LA County Sheriff’s Office said this afternoon that they have not yet retrieved the black box from the SUV that would tell them how fast the car was actually going, locals have reported that it is very easy to pick up too much speed on the downhill slope without realizing how fast you’re going ([cite](https://www.tmz.com/2021/02/24/tiger-woods-crash-zone-known-dangerous-out-of-control-locals/)), and that stretch of road has been the scene of thirteen accidents in the last year ([cite](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/la-sheriff-says-he-doesn-t-expect-charges-against-tiger-n1258772)). No, it doesn’t appear that he used good judgment. However, poor judgment BY ITSELF is not enough to support a finding of reckless driving, defined in [California law](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=23103.#:~:text=(a)%20A%20person%20who%20drives,is%20guilty%20of%20reckless%20driving.) as “in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property.” What evidence would you use to support a case that he INTENTIONALLY drove so fast as to lose control? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/133 "2021-02-25T03:46:19Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > What evidence would you use to support a case that he INTENTIONALLY drove so fast as to lose control? I never said he intentionally drove so fast as to lose control. But it’s hard to see how he didn’t know he was going dangerously, recklessly fast. His director said Tiger almost struck him leaving the site. He did drive way too fast, fast enough to cause him to go across a median, 2 lanes of oncoming traffic, and down a hillside. Whatever his reason was is unknown, but it’s not something that the average person does. It’s enough to make me question whether he was impaired or just a terribly bad driver. That’s when you investigate accidents to rule out possible causes. I don’t think you have to hate Tiger Woods to come to this conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/134 "2021-02-25T04:50:34Z")
How fast was he going? The speed limit in that area is 45mph; was he going 55, 75, 95, …? We already have testimony from locals (cited above) that it’s pretty easy to pick up speed going down that hill even without intending to; it is steep enough that they have a “runaway vehicle escape lane” close by. The median is only about one car-width wide; even at the speed limit of 45mph, that’s 66 feet per second, so even a momentary loss of concentration could have sent him across the median and two lanes of traffic in, literally, a blink of an eye. Yes, plenty of “average people” make similar mistakes. That’s why there are around six million auto accidents in the US every year. A finding of wanton disregard requires some degree of intent; that’s just part of the legal definition. You have to know what you are doing is dangerous, know what the consequences could be, and do it anyway. So, what evidence would you use to prove that he knew he was going too fast and intentionally did so anyway? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/135 "2021-02-25T05:16:35Z")
It seems that a majority of the women on Facebook are talking about this. IMNSHO, it was a private issue, and by all accounts, the affairs were consensual. It does boggle my mind that there really are that many women who didn’t care that he was married, never mind that he’s famous. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/136 "2021-02-25T06:18:03Z")
Don’t bother. He got into a car accident and he’s famous. That apparently means he brought it on himself, he’s no longer a victim, deserves scorn and abdicates his rights. The discussion here are diverged from all common sense and compassion. All we have is hearsay yet the pitchforks are out. What a disgusting society we can be. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/137 "2021-02-25T06:39:27Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > A finding of wanton disregard requires some degree of intent; that’s just part of the legal definition. You have to know what you are doing is dangerous, know what the consequences could be, and do it anyway. So, what evidence would you use to prove that he knew he was going too fast and intentionally did so anyway? ALL I have said was that I felt an accident such as this one warranted an alcohol/drug test. He’s lucky to be alive, and so is anyone else potentially in his path. How is this even controversial? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/138 "2021-02-25T06:45:25Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > All we have is hearsay yet the pitchforks are out. You are truly being delusional if you think that asking for a BAC after a near-fatal reckless driving accident is attacking with pitchforks. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/139 "2021-02-25T07:46:08Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > ALL I have said was that I felt an accident such as this one warranted an alcohol/drug test. He’s lucky to be alive, and so is anyone else potentially in his path. How is this even controversial? It’s controversial because warrantless searches are controversial in the US. Drawing a blood sample for alcohol/drug testing is a search; under US law, that requires either a warrant issued by a judge or some reasonably articulable belief that the suspect is driving under the influence of alcohol/drugs in circumstances in which a warrant cannot be obtained quickly (exigent circumstances). (See [Mitchell v Wisconsin](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/18-6210_2co3.pdf) [PDF!] for the Supreme Court’s take.) In either case (warrant or exigent circumstances), American law requires that the police officer be able to articulate some grounds for believing the suspect was driving under the influence of booze or pills. That belief might for example be based on open containers or a smell of alcohol or slurred speech or pinpoint pupils. However, merely getting into an accident, even a reckless accident, isn’t enough, since plenty of accidents are caused distracted driving, simple negligence, road rage, etc., etc. (The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimated in 2005 that about seven percent of traffic accidents involve alcohol, e.g., [[PDF cite](https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/810616)] and even that involvement is not necessarily the cause.) If the investigators don’t have grounds to suspect impaired driving, then the results of any blood test they do are very likely to be ruled inadmissible in court anyway. (Even ‘implied consent’ laws don’t cover cases where the cops can’t articulate probable cause; see the discussion in the Wisconsin decision above.) So, what probable cause do we have here? The deputy on scene didn’t see or smell booze, and reported Woods was lucid, chatty, and not visibly impaired. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579/140 "2021-02-25T08:03:43Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > So, what probable cause do we have here? The deputy on scene didn’t see or smell booze, and reported Woods was lucid, chatty, and not visibly impaired. This is why I suspect he wasn’t under the influence of substances, but that also doesn’t mean the collision wasn’t his fault and he shouldn’t face consequences if it’s determined that his reckless driving led to the incident. I’m just glad nobody else was hurt and he’s likely to survive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiger-woods-in-very-serious-car-crash/933579.md?page=8)