# Tigers, Lions and Bears Oh My **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 26, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721 "2016-05-26T02:03:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/1 "2016-05-26T02:03:54Z")
Hello Everyone, I’ve seen a bunch of videos of people playing with baby Lions, tigers and such. As these animals grow older can the people that raised then still do things like cuddle with them and play with them? Or will they get mailed? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/2 "2016-05-26T02:21:17Z")
It’s often both. Remember Siegfried or Roy? (I don’t know which one was mauled) People in close contact with dangerous animals often get injured, or killed. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/3 "2016-05-26T02:24:10Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Hello Everyone, > > I’ve seen a bunch of videos of people playing with baby Lions, tigers and such. As these animals grow older can the people that raised then still do things like cuddle with them and play with them? Or will they get **mailed**? Nah, they don’t know about stamps. As for mauled, well, there’s a reason they’re called _wild_ animals. The next time it happens won’t be the first. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/4 "2016-05-26T02:25:39Z")
[Christian the Lion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_the_lion) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl1y9IOHof8 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/5 "2016-05-26T02:37:56Z")
[quote=“Duckster, post:4, topic:755721”] [Christian the Lion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_the_lion) [/QUOTE] Wonderful story. BTW: Read the story of [Boy the lion](https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1817&dat=19710806&id=ugIdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=KpwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7355,1241856&hl=en) mentioned in your wiki link. ---
**Author:** ![Stinky\_Pete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Stinky\_Pete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stinky_Pete)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/6 "2016-05-26T03:25:25Z")
Lions, tigers, bears, monkeys, apes, wolves, and more. Even if raised among humans completely in a friendly environment from birth, there is always a chance they will attack and maul/kill a human. Doesn’t matter if they’ve had a long history of gentle behavior. And what triggers these domesticated wild animals to attack is not always apparent. (I guess domesticated is the wrong word to use). Our normally domestic animals like dogs, cats, cows, horses, chickens, pigs, etc have had many generations of the wildness bred out of them. These animals can be raised to be completely safe to be around (unless provoked). ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/7 "2016-05-26T03:37:31Z")
> [@Stinky\_Pete](#): > > Lions, tigers, bears, monkeys, apes, wolves, and more. Even if raised among humans completely in a friendly environment from birth, there is always a chance they will attack and maul/kill a human. Doesn’t matter if they’ve had a long history of gentle behavior. Perfectly docile, tame, domesticated _humans_ occasionally go berserk and maul other humans. Are there any comparative statistics to compare the danger of “tame” wild animals with the danger of “tame” humans? I think I’d feel a bit safer with a “tame” lion than a tiger. Lions, unlike most big cats, are somewhat social critters. I suspect that a lion would be more likely to recognize humans as “family” if it grew up with them. Like that story about Christian the Lion. I would not expect a tiger or most other big cats to behave like that. (ETA: There’s another big cat that, I’ve read, is relatively benign towards humans – but I don’t remember which one. Jaguar? Anybody know?) Remember Travis the Chimp, the domesticated chimp who went berserk and chewed someone’s face and fingers off? That’s not “supposed” to happen, but now everyone is really worried about people keeping chimps. The fact was, as I recall, Travis had been fed Xanax, and was very possibly (I speculate) having Xanax withdrawal trouble at the time. Based on my personal experience with the similar drug Klonopin, I’d have chewed someone’s face off too. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/8 "2016-05-26T06:16:41Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I think I’d feel a bit safer with a “tame” lion than a tiger. Lions, unlike most big cats, are somewhat social critters. I suspect that a lion would be more likely to recognize humans as “family” if it grew up with them. Like that story about Christian the Lion. I would not expect a tiger or most other big cats to behave like that. (ETA: There’s another big cat that, I’ve read, is relatively benign towards humans – but I don’t remember which one. Jaguar? Anybody know?) You’re most likely thinking of cheetahs. > [@](#): > > Most animals, including big cats, can be trained to some extent, but cheetahs tend to have a comparatively tamer temperament than the others, largely due to their anatomy, said Dr. Laurie Marker, a world-class cheetah expert who founded the Cheetah Conservation Fund in Namibia. [http://bunewsservice.com/can-you-train-a-cheetah-to-be-your-pet/](http://bunewsservice.com/can-you-train-a-cheetah-to-be-your-pet/) ---
**Author:** ![Stinky\_Pete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Stinky\_Pete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stinky_Pete)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/9 "2016-05-26T06:50:12Z")
The article you site says, “Most animals, including big cats, can be trained to some extent, but cheetahs tend to have a comparatively tamer temperament than the others” Okay, that sounds good, but then later in the same article it says, “You can never assume that because a wild animal has received training, even extensive training, it is somehow now “safe” for humans to engage with” ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/10 "2016-05-26T10:18:16Z")
> [@Stinky\_Pete](#): > > The article you site says, “Most animals, including big cats, can be trained to some extent, but cheetahs tend to have a comparatively tamer temperament than the others” > > Okay, that sounds good, but then later in the same article it says, “You can never assume that because a wild animal has received training, even extensive training, it is somehow now “safe” for humans to engage with” Did it really sound so good? Watch out for words like _some extent_, and _comparatively_. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/11 "2016-05-26T11:56:07Z")
In the bear department, we have [Mark Dumas,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7rZTZBOrqQ) who has been a companion to a polar bear since it was six weeks old. [This is the dictionary definition of trust.](http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01335/SNN2820AN-682_1335263a.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/12 "2016-05-26T12:21:50Z")
I once saw a documentary about a tiger keeper who continued to play with his tigers even when they were adult. That said, his “play” was purposeful in that he put great effort into maintaining a position of superiority and control over the animal. It is NOT without risk and NOT something to be done by amateurs. I recall another anecdote from a woman who kept wolves. She treated them much like we would treat dogs. One day she tripped in the kitchen and fell down. She immediately got to her feet and started beating the shit out of the wolves. Even though she had raised them, she could not afford to let them see her as “weak” or they might attack her and attempt to claim superiority. This is the kind of mentality you are dealing with when you try to raise dangerous animals. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/13 "2016-05-26T14:16:28Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > … I recall another anecdote from a woman who kept wolves. She treated them much like we would treat dogs. One day she tripped in the kitchen and fell down. She immediately got to her feet and started beating the shit out of the wolves. Even though she had raised them, she could not afford to let them see her as “weak” or they might attack her and attempt to claim superiority. This is the kind of mentality you are dealing with when you try to raise dangerous animals. I wouldn’t know, but perhaps it’s the kind of mentality you are dealing with with batshit crazy animal trainers. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/14 "2016-05-26T14:30:57Z")
Read about [Travis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_(chimpanzee)) the chimpanzee who attacked a woman, ripping off her face and damaging her hands. And [Daine Whipple](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Diane_Whipple) mauled to death by a dog, and then the batshit crazy owners blamed HER. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/15 "2016-05-26T14:47:08Z")
Don’t try this at home, folks … ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/16 "2016-05-26T15:24:34Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Read about [Travis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_(chimpanzee)) the chimpanzee who attacked a woman, ripping off her face and damaging her hands. > > And [Daine Whipple](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Diane_Whipple) mauled to death by a dog, and then the batshit crazy owners blamed HER. Speaking of [blaming the victim…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_Brancheau) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/17 "2016-05-26T15:37:21Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I wouldn’t know, but perhaps it’s the kind of mentality you are dealing with with batshit crazy animal trainers. Right. Thing is, you have to be a bit goofy in the first place to own a dangerous wild animal as a pet. A really sane well-adjusted person would get a dog or a cat or a horse. So there’s already something guaranteed to be wrong with you if you think having a tiger for a pet is a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/18 "2016-05-26T16:18:58Z")
> [@Stinky\_Pete](#): > > Lions, tigers, bears, monkeys, apes, wolves, and more. Even if raised among humans completely in a friendly environment from birth, there is always a chance they will attack and maul/kill a human. Doesn’t matter if they’ve had a long history of gentle behavior. And what triggers these domesticated wild animals to attack is not always apparent. (I guess domesticated is the wrong word to use). > > Our normally domestic animals like dogs, cats, cows, horses, chickens, pigs, etc have had many generations of the wildness bred out of them. These animals can be raised to be completely safe to be around (unless provoked). Wild animals can be “tamed”. Domesticated animals are just generally more tractable and responsive to training; they are born “tamer”. Compare zebra and horses. Any animal (including humans, as noted upthread) can be capable of injuring humans. Larger ones more so than smaller, just because. From my reading about horses when my daughter started riding (much of it on SDMB), people who work with large animal livestock (ya know, the domesticated ones) pretty much accept that they will be physically hurt by their animals from time to time (“not so much if, but when”). I’m guessing that the addition of pointy teeth and predatory instincts don’t make animals safer to be around. Now for my anecdote, relayed to me by a keeper at a zoo I used to hang out at when I was young. A male tiger kept there had been raised from cubhood by a bigwig at the zoo. Although he would no longer play with the adult male, he would reach through the bars from time to time to stroke his head, and this was received affectionately. One time he did this after an adult female had been enclosed with him (for a mating opportunity). He supposed it was safe, as she was on the other side of the enclosure, but she jumped clear across the enclosure (which was rather small by modern standards, but still a fair distance) and grabbed his arm, severely mauling it. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/19 "2016-05-26T16:55:39Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > And [Daine Whipple](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Diane_Whipple) mauled to death by a dog, and then the batshit crazy owners blamed HER. Well, the Whipple death is different. The dogs, although nominally considered domesticated animals, were probably _more_ dangerous than simple wild animals. [QUOTE=Wikipedia] The dogs’ actual owner, Paul Schneider, was a high-ranking member of the prison gang the Aryan Brotherhood who was serving a life sentence in Pelican Bay State Prison. Schneider and his cellmate Dale Bretches were attempting to start an illegal Presa Canario dog-fighting business from prison. They initially asked acquaintances Janet Coumbs and Hard Times Kennel owner/breeder James Kolber of Akron, Ohio to raise the dogs during their incarceration. Against Kolber’s advice, Coumbs chained the dogs in a remote corner of the farm, which caused them to become even more aggressive. After Coumbs fell out of favor with Schneider,[4] attorneys Noel and Knoller agreed to take possession of the dogs. They had become acquainted with Schneider while doing legal work for prisoners, and had adopted Schneider (then age 38) as their legal son a few days before the mauling. Bane, the larger of the dogs, weighed 140 pounds (64 kg).[5] [/QUOTE] Note that news articles at the time estimated Bane’s weight at 123 pounds. Dogs typically get larger as the news cycle matures. In addition to chaining the dogs away from human company (which no doubt had the effect of further alienating them from humans), Coumbs completely lost control of the dogs: Source: [SFGate.com article](http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Ohio-Breeder-Appalled-by-Fatal-Mauling-Search-2956337.php) > [@](#): > > …Coumbs was in over her head. > > At first, Coumbs had been intrigued by the idea of raising dogs. “They told me, if you got these dogs, we would pay you and you could support yourself,” she recalled. In return, she said, the inmates would watch the animals grow through photos and draw pictures. > > But the four dogs started to run amok on her property, at one point ripping apart her trailer. "She definitely didn’t know what was going on with the dogs, " Kolber said. “I told her they are highly independent, strong-willed dogs, not for everyone.” > > “I didn’t know what I had gotten into,” recalled Coumbs, who says she lives on disability with her 20-year-old daughter on a small farm with a pond and a creek. “It was a scam from the start.” > [@](#): > > In May 1999, Bane and his sister, Isis, had 10 puppies. > > But the inmates became unhappy when she told them that six of the puppies were killed by their mother. Coumbs complained that the dogs had eaten her chickens, her sheep and her daughter’s pet cat. So these dogs were purchased by the Aryan Brotherhood to fight, brutalized and ignored by an incompetent caretaker, and then taken in by lawyers who admired the imprisoned murderer who organized the dogfighting ring. Talk about a scenario set up for failure. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721/20 "2016-05-26T17:10:34Z")
Let’s not forget that Diane Whipple was a lesbian, which the dog’s owners argued contributed to her death. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tigers-lions-and-bears-oh-my/755721.md?page=2)