# Tim, Susan, I agree you have the right to free speech... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2003, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772 "2003-04-10T13:15:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/61 "2003-04-11T20:39:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*Thank you for helping to make my point. **There are no qualifications required.** Therefore, Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins are every bit as qualified as Rush Limbaugh to comment publicly on matters political. \*\* And then other people are every bit as qualified to refuse to hire them. Could somebody please quote the pertinent part of US law that requires people to hire Susie and Timmie for public appearances? What part of US Code is this? What is the pertinent caselaw? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/62 "2003-04-11T20:59:24Z")
And the McCarthy-era blacklists were “legal,” too. Doesn’t make 'em right. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/63 "2003-04-11T21:13:25Z")
Please try to follow along **Dogface**. No one is saying that Robbins and Sarandon have to be hired by anyone (would they even have been paid in the first place? I don’t know if that’s clear. Seems like it was just a courtesy appearance). However, once you invite someone to an event, it’s your responsiblity to not be a political jackass and to not uninvite them for unrelated reasons. He’s under no penalty to do so (keep working that strawman!) except that for the outrage of those opposed to his action of politicizing an non-political event. Especially considering in this specific example that Robbins and Sarandon, while political, are not rabble-rousers and surely had no intention to make political comments. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/64 "2003-04-11T21:52:53Z")
Goddamn it, don’t you all know that the \* \*\* only responsible \*\* \*way to speak is to \*\* agree \*\* with Our Leader and His Glorious Policies? Jeez… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/65 "2003-04-11T22:58:13Z")
[Writer Cancels Over Cooperstown ‘Bull Durham’ Snub](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030411/en_nm/people_robbins_writer_dc) > [@](#): > > \*\*Sportswriter Roger Kahn has canceled an appearance at baseball’s Hall of Fame after the museum scrubbed a 15th anniversary tribute to the film “Bull Durham” because of the anti-war stance of its stars. > > (snip) > > Kahn’s 17th book, “October Men,” is about the 1978 New York Yankees. He is best known for “The Boys of Summer,” about the Brooklyn Dodgers of the 1950s. That 1972 book has sold about 3 million copies. \*\* A minor gesture perhaps, but a gesture nonetheless. Just goes to show that even consequences have consequences. Now maybe the warmongers will boycott Kahn’s books… ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/66 "2003-04-11T22:59:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*Thank you for helping to make my point. **There are no qualifications required.** Therefore, Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins are every bit as qualified as Rush Limbaugh to comment publicly on matters political. \*\* See my above “weekend warrior” criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Parameters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Parameters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parameters)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/67 "2003-04-12T02:10:38Z")
Not sure what this debate is about. History is history. It doesn’t matter what you’re for or against at this point. It’s already history. The funny thing is, is that people still protested the US joining WWII after the Japanese Attacked Pearl Harbor. All I’m worried about now is this new Patriot Act laws our Government is trying to pass. Internment camps could be next. Let’s just relax and Play Ball… ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/68 "2003-04-12T19:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*And then other people are every bit as qualified to refuse to hire them. Could somebody please quote the pertinent part of US law that requires people to hire Susie and Timmie for public appearances? > > What part of US Code is this? What is the pertinent caselaw? \*\* Rush, is that you? Clearly, no laws were broken. No one has to hire Robbins or Sarandon (calling them Timmie and Susie doesn’t make them look small. It makes _you_ look small\_minded) Lot’s of folks hire them anyhoo. Because they have some particular talents. Talents that made _Bull Durham_ a hit movie. But if the HoF wants to cancel the celebration, they can do that. No one has said otherwise. And they can publicly argue with the pair all they want. Being used to the public eye, the pair might have a slight edge. But the HoF could have went about this in a much better way. As I suggested earlier, they could have spoken to the pair and asked them not to make political statements at the event. (Robbins has said he wouldn’t have made political statements at the event anyway). Or, the HoF could’ve cancelled the event and simply stated that “it didn’t seem prudent to hold the event during wartime”. Would’ve been the classy move, IMO. But one guy, _one guy_, decided he would turn a baseball event into a political football, depriving many, many folks of what would surely be really good time. Out of spite, for all I can see. He can do that. But it still makes him a putz. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/69 "2003-04-12T19:29:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\*Maybe we should pass a law that anyone who’s famous for any other reason than politics, has no right to use their celebrity as a platform for voicing political views, running for office, etc. Let’s gag the Hollywood celebs, the sports stars, the business bigwigs, the rock stars - shut 'em all up. 😉 > \*\* If you amend it to “unless asked” I’d get behind it. You’ll probably disappoint me by turning out not to be serious about it, though ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/70 "2003-04-12T20:31:39Z")
**Random:** > [@](#): > > Interesting. I tend to agree with you that politics shouldn’t have anything to do with a non-political event of this kind. > > Too bad Susan and Tim disagree. After all, the Academy Awards and similar awards shows are also non-political, and both are known for injecting their political opinions into such shows. > > If I were the organizer of this event, I’d have a well-founded worry that any speech or other participation by this couple would include some sort of political comment or message. Yeah, boy howdy, Susan Sarandon just wouldn’t shut her yap about the war when she presented at the Academy Awards, would she? What’s that? Before millions of people, and she didn’t say a word about it? Well, never mind then. (What makes this even funnier is that at no point did Petroskey contact Robbins and Sarandon and say, “Hey, I’m worried about you using this event as a soapbox; would you mind if you confined yourself to baseball-related topics?” That is, there’s absolutely no indication that politics would even have been an issue had Petroskey not preemptively made it so.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/71 "2003-04-12T20:39:35Z")
Nonsense. He had definitive and reliable intelligence that they were going to determined to exploit this pure American event into a diatribe undermining everything that is good and right. He cannot release the source of this intelligence due to national security concerns. ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/72 "2003-04-12T20:44:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > …(calling them Timmie and Susie doesn’t make them look small. It makes _you_ look small\_minded) Oh, my, you are just _so_ funny! And do you say the same to other people on this board who call the President “shrub” or liberals “the loony left” or Christians “fundies” or…? I think you get the point. I’ll have to read your posts with a fresh attitude, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/73 "2003-04-13T10:33:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NaSultainne \* > \*\*Oh, my, you are just _so_ funny! And do you say the same to other people on this board who call the President “shrub” or liberals “the loony left” or Christians “fundies” or…? > > . \*\* In the pit, no. But this isn’t the pit. The standards are a _little_ different here. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/74 "2003-04-13T14:01:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*Limbaugh is an entertainer. He has no special qualifications to talk politics. \*\* Continuing the hijack: To be fair, I don’t think any ‘special qualifications’ are necessary to be a political commentator, any more than you need any special qualifications to go into politics. It’s a generalist’s profession. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/75 "2003-04-13T14:05:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*I suspect that cryptofascists very often resort to simply spouting sarcasm. Hey cool, now I’m a ‘cryptofascist’! Always wanted to be one of them. Ummm, **Dogface** , please acquaint yourself with the forum rules. [sub]Oops! Please ignore my previous post. Shoulda read down further and seen that that line of the discussion had already been taken further. My bad. [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![AbsolutelyFabulous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@AbsolutelyFabulous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbsolutelyFabulous)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/76 "2003-04-13T14:06:27Z")
The “stuff” that always seems to be unfair and happening is when people in power abuse their authority to punish those who challenge them or their ideas. But we’re just supposed to put up with it. Come on, admit it, the total semantic content of your post is, “Bend over.” A great and inspiring message if you’re into that sort of thing, I suppose. One might need to realize that given your logic Susan and Tim must then be considered to be abusive of their authority as well. They both go hand in hand. It all depends on your viewpoint If you agree with Susan and Tim you will think Petrosky is out of line and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/77 "2003-04-13T14:11:35Z")
Whose post are you refering to? ---
**Author:** ![AbsolutelyFabulous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@AbsolutelyFabulous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbsolutelyFabulous)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tim-susan-i-agree-you-have-the-right-to-free-speech/167772/78 "2003-04-13T15:50:54Z")
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