# Time again for a Daylight Saving thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 10, 2025, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394 "2025-03-10T15:01:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/101 "2025-03-11T17:34:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I suspect the split the difference at a half-hour is actually the best compromise. Guaranteed that with 5 years the DSers with try to add daylight saving onto that 30 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/102 "2025-03-11T17:44:00Z")
To what effect? Every ~6 months now we have the 3-way whining where groups “try” to make changes. They all fail and we stay with current policy. When Congress does act to tweak things, it’s sure not in response to constituent demands. The whole time zones versus daylight versus clocks thing is sterile and I’m frankly questioning why I even clicked on this thread. Not meant as a dig at you or your point specifically, just that DST is a _very_ tired topic. IMO YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/103 "2025-03-11T17:56:56Z")
We need to have a thread in January asking people if they’d like an extra hour of morning darkness at that time of year in order to get an extra hour of light in the evening. And a similar thread in July, asking people if they wouldn’t rather have an hour of light between 4 and 5am than to have it between 8 and 9pm. I never hear anyone complaining about Standard Time in mid-winter, and I don’t hear anyone complaining about Daylight Time in midsummer. Nobody likes the time change, but hardly anyone is unhappy with the results, AFAICT. ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/104 "2025-03-11T17:59:34Z")
I am one of those weirdos who loves the darkness. I adjust to whatever and move on but I miss the long nights. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/105 "2025-03-11T18:06:20Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Yes, absolutely the clear and obvious deleterious health effects should be weighed against any increase in traffic deaths. Are there more in the evenings in standard time than there are in the mornings during DST? And do you have a cite? I’d be very interested in reading it. I’m not going to look up a cite for the fact that, all other conditions being equal, traffic accidents are more frequent in the dark than in daylight. And there may be deleterious health effects which can be detected statistically at the population level, but they certainly aren’t “clear and obvious” to ordinary people. I’m generally a big fan of trusting the medical authorities, but I and many others have a hard time accepting the sort of claims you’ve linked to, despite the impressive credentials of the authors, precisely because they are so very much at odds with our own lived experience. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/106 "2025-03-11T18:14:29Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I suspect the split the difference at a half-hour is actually the best compromise. Admittedly, it is probably the one that will engender the most screaming from the greatest number of people when implemented. But also the one that produces the least harm from that day forward. I believe India is the only one on a ½ hour time zone; the rest of the world is some multiple of one hour away from anyone else. Anyone dealing internationally prefers the whole hour. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/107 "2025-03-11T18:16:30Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > And there may be deleterious health effects which can be detected statistically at the population level, but they certainly aren’t “clear and obvious” to ordinary people. It’s also hard to read the numbers. “Stroke risk” increases by 8% the day after DST switches so, if my daily risk of a stroke is 2% then it’s 2.16% for a day? If I’m that worried about a 0.16% increase for a day, I should probably be more concerned about my diet and exercise in general than whether or not we move the clocks. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/108 "2025-03-11T18:41:08Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I believe India is the only one on a ½ hour time zone; the rest of the world is some multiple of one hour away from anyone else. Australian Central Western Time UTC +8:45 Australian Western Time UTC +9:30 Cocos Island Time UTC +6:30 Chatham Island Standard Time UTC +12:45 Newfoundland Standard Time UTC -3:30 Afghanistan Time UTC +4:30 Iran Standard Time UTC +3:30 Myanmar Time UTC +6:30 Nepal Time UTC +5:45 Marquesas Time UTC -9:30 And North Korea recently went back to Korea Standard Time after being on Pyongyang Time UTC +8:30 ---
**Author:** ![SailorHG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@SailorHG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SailorHG)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/109 "2025-03-11T18:56:19Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I believe India is the only one on a ½ hour time zone; the rest of the world is some multiple of one hour away from anyone else. I don’t know if the story is true or not (the results certainly are!) but apparently that half-hour offset was so that British colonists in India could turn their watches upside down and see the current time in the UK (GMT). How that would be useful I don’t know, given no ability for international calling at the time. It’s a fun bit of trivia nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/110 "2025-03-11T18:59:48Z")
Probably not true. They went with a version of the same suggestion from above - the country is wide enough for two time zones, so they ended up splitting the difference and using a single time zone for the entire country. ---
**Author:** ![SailorHG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@SailorHG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SailorHG)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/111 "2025-03-11T19:10:06Z")
Yes, I agree that’s more likely. The fact that the upside-down watch trick works is probaby just a happy coincidence. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/112 "2025-03-11T19:29:56Z")
Depending on whether you live on the eastern or western extreme of a time zone, your sun time may already be ½ hour or more off from others in the same time zone. DST is a problem for the 4th of July when it often isn’t dark enough for fireworks until inconveniently late. But having dawn be at 4:30 A.M. would have its own problems. As a kid with an early bedtime, it always struck me as wrong to have to go bed with the sun still shining. I still have weird “midnight sun” dreams on occasion that the Earth has flipped on its axis or something. The northernmost states of the USA are only on about the same latitude as France. Britain spans about the same latitude as Labrador, imagine their difficulties with seasonal variation. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/113 "2025-03-11T19:44:59Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > It is such an antiquated idea. We have electric lights now for the evenings. The idea was to save energy. > **[How does Daylight Saving Time save energy?](https://energyharbor.com/en/energy-resources/energy-savings-tips/daylight-saving-time-save-energy)** > > We hate changing the clock, but there’s a reason for it. Here’s how Daylight Saving conserves energy. _How much energy do we save? Nearly 1.3 TeraWatt-hours per year in the U.S., according to a 2008 Department of Energy report. That’s more than 1 billion kilowatt-hours (kWh). Given that the average incandescent lightbulb burns almost 50 kWh per year – that’s a lot of energy saved._ > [@steronz](#): > > In an ideal world, we wouldn’t need DST because our lives wouldn’t be structured around arbitrary work and school schedules. Schools should start, say, 1 hour after sunrise regardless of when that is or what time zone the school is in, Yep. The reason why energy is saved is due to the 9-5 work schedule, etc. Now, the 9-5 is getting flexible and so are school hours, and then there is LED technology, so the savings are getting smaller. > [@doreen](#): > > How does that work? School starts at 8:15 today and 8:13 tomorrow? It could be adjusted every quarter. Mind you, this isnt that practical either. > [@Alessan](#): > > Ugh, this again. Every year - every _fucking_ year - you Americans whine and whine and WHINE about a simple bookkeeping adjustment. It’s insufferable. Yep. Sunday morning I get up and within a few minutes I adjust the few remaining clocks not connected to the internet, etc. No big deal. > [@Zyada](#): > > I think that the problem now is that we generally agree that it needs to go, but Nope. > **[More Than Half in U.S. Want Daylight Saving Time Sunsetted](https://news.gallup.com/poll/657584/half-daylight-saving-time-sunsetted.aspx)** > > Most Americans now oppose daylight saving time, with support dropping sharply since 1999. Almost half prefer year-round standard time. WASHINGTON, D.C. – _As the March 9 switch to daylight saving time (DST) approaches in the U.S., the majority of Americans (54%) say they are ready to do away with the practice. By contrast, 40% of U.S. adults say they are in favor of daylight saving time, while 6% are uncertain._ _These findings come from a Jan. 21-27 Gallup poll, which marks the first time Gallup has measured Americans’ opinions about daylight saving time since 1999. During the 26-year interlude, views about the practice have shifted dramatically. In 1999, 73% favored daylight saving time, similar to the 74% who did so in a 1990 poll. Support was more muted in readings from 1937 to 1957, when between 51% and 57% were in favor, though daylight saving time was not uniformly observed across the U.S. in that period._ Now it is 60% say get rid of it. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/114 "2025-03-11T20:13:01Z")
I think the MAIN argument for DST is that it allows people to have more sunlight during the hours they are likely to be moving around, which people enjoy. Obviously saving energy is a desirable side effect, but IMO it’s not the actual reason we do it. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/115 "2025-03-11T20:37:03Z")
That’s too bad that you didn’t want to look up a cite for something that you believe to be true. And deciding not to believe medical authorities because their findings are contrary to your own lived experience is dismayingly common these days. We saw a lot of that during the pandemic among people who refused to wear masks because their lived experience didn’t include anyone critically ill from Covid. I just didn’t expect to see it here on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/116 "2025-03-11T20:42:36Z")
Wait, you are seriously comparing a one-hour time change to COVID? You’re claiming that millions of Americans have lost loved ones to the horrible ravages of Daylight Saving Time? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/117 "2025-03-11T21:42:27Z")
OK, I’ve Done My Own Research and I give in. Apparently in the last decade or so the medical community has come to the consensus that shifting our circadian rhythms by an hour has terrible effects, and that we should all be on Standard Time. I’m not seeing anything directly relating to the argument that DST reduces traffic deaths, though, and traffic deaths are obviously a major cause of death and injury in America. Since someone asked for a cite for basic common sense, here’s the [National Safety Council:](https://www.nsc.org/road/safety-topics/driving-at-night) > Evening rush hour (between 4 and 7 p.m. weekdays) is a dangerous time to drive due to crowded roadways and drivers eager to get home after work. In winter, it’s dark during rush hour, compounding an already dangerous driving situation. > > While we do only one quarter of our driving at night, 50% of traffic deaths happen at night. It doesn’t matter whether the road is familiar or not, driving at night is always more dangerous. So, if driving at night _doubles_ your risk of a fatal accident, then having several weeks more or less of commuting in the dark seems like a big deal. AFAICT studies have found a small increase in the risk of accident on the day immediately following the change, and none on any other days. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/118 "2025-03-11T21:56:22Z")
> _How much energy do we save? Nearly 1.3 TeraWatt-hours per year in the U.S., according to a 2008 Department of Energy report. That’s more than 1 billion kilowatt-hours (kWh). Given that the average incandescent lightbulb burns almost 50 kWh per year – that’s a lot of energy saved._ Let’s see how big a lot that is: the U.S. consumes about 4 trillion kWh per year, and DST is saving us 1.3 billion kWh per year. So it saves about 1/3000 of America’s annual electricity consumption. While every little bit helps, I hardly think it’s worth doing DST just for that. And I say that as someone who is very much in favor of the current setup. I wouldn’t mind some minor adjustments (I think the second weekend in March is too early for the time change, for instance) but I like it because IMHO it makes the best use of the daylight at the different times of year. Others’ mileage clearly varies! ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/119 "2025-03-11T22:00:59Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > (I think the second weekend in March is too early for the time change, for instance) On the one hand, I agree that the old set up with last Sunday in March works better for daylight - other side of the equinox kind of makes sense. But on the other, the 2nd Sunday matches Spring Break week for most schools around here, so it helps with the schedule disruption. On the whole, if we’re going to switch, I kind of like having both schedule disruptions linked. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2025, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394/120 "2025-03-11T22:14:34Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > On the whole, if we’re going to switch, I kind of like having both schedule disruptions linked. DST is managed at the federal level. Spring Break is decided by states for their colleges, and states and school districts for lower public school grades. And by private college or private school BoDs for themselves. Once we get DST done right, easy enough for you to pressure your more local governments to get onboard w matching the Fed’s actions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-again-for-a-daylight-saving-thread/1015394.md?page=7)