# Time expression: "Quarter of" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 23, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105 "2010-10-23T16:24:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/21 "2010-10-23T20:30:27Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Are people really this young? In the era before digital clocks, everybody spoke this way. Have we lost all those concepts so quickly? I am hardly young. Definitely pre-digital clock era. I rarely heard the term growing up. I hardly ever hear at all now. Very, very uncommon. I have to ask the person what they mean because I can’t recall the definition. I also don’t think it’s all that geographic (in the large scale). Maybe more localized to family/neighborhood/social group. It is a very obtuse use of terminology. “Of”? Why not say “till”? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/22 "2010-10-23T20:37:42Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Are people really this young? In the era before digital clocks, everybody spoke this way. Have we lost all those concepts so quickly? > > Excuse me, I must dodder off aimlessly. Digital clocks were certainly not the norm when I grew up; I was taught how to read a standard clock both at home and in school, and I never in my life actually heard a person say “quarter of” anything, or at least didn’t until I travelled to New England for the first time. And I couldn’t figure out what the hell it meant, since on the face of it (ha) it doesn’t actually make any sense. “Quarter of four,” it seems to me, should be 3:15 - a quarter of the fourth hour. It’s most definitely a regionalism, not a clock thing. As to the “zed/zee” thing, c’mon, every Canadian knows what a “zee” is, they’re just being picky if they object. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/23 "2010-10-23T20:40:59Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I have never figured out how “a quarter of eight” can mean 7:45. A quarter of eight is two. And a quarter of 4 is 1, but it’s not the time of day that we are quartering, only the hour itself. So a quarter of an hour is 15 minutes. Any hour, not just 2,6, or 8. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/24 "2010-10-23T22:05:25Z")
To me the weird thing is this practice got so popular despite taking extra energy, at least compared to just saying the time straight out. Hearing it requires performing arithmetic and remembering the first number; saying it requires mentally constructing this weird sounding sentence, instead of just reading out a series of numbers. The latter also has the appeal of being both curt and lazy to a stranger asking the time. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/25 "2010-10-23T22:22:14Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > To me the weird thing is this practice got so popular despite taking extra energy, at least compared to just saying the time straight out. Hearing it requires performing arithmetic and remembering the first number; saying it requires mentally constructing this weird sounding sentence, instead of just reading out a series of numbers. The latter also has the appeal of being both curt and lazy to a stranger asking the time. No, it takes **less** energy and math, at least with an analog clock. Most of the time, people are not particularly interested in an absolute time - they are interested in a delta time to some event. For example - say you have a meeting at 3pm. If you ask the time, and someone says “five of three”, then you know in an instant that you have five minutes to get to your meeting. If someone says “2:55” then you need to do the calculation 60-55 to get the same information. It’s the same when saying the time. If you look at a clock face, you can easily determine the number of minutes to the next hour, especially if it is past the half-hour mark. This is why the expression is only used for times greater than 30 minutes past the hour - nobody ever says “it’s 45 of 3.” Remember that these expressions evolved when all clocks were analog - digital clocks make it easier to say the time precisely (but this makes it harder for the listener). ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/26 "2010-10-23T22:32:06Z")
I’ve heard and used it my whole life. California. (The one I don’t get is the British way of saying 3:5 as if that means something. Is it supposed to mean 3:05, five after three??) ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/27 "2010-10-23T22:32:06Z")
I have read the expression “it lacks ten minutes of three (hours),” which may have been an older, fuller version of this. As it happens, I grew up (in Southern California) saying " 'til," but I’ve heard “of” often enough. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/28 "2010-10-23T22:44:13Z")
I grew up in the East, mainly Northeast, and “quarter of eight” was mostly used when it was 7:45. I remember my grandmother also saying “half-past seven” instead of “seven thirty.” To this day, she is the only person I have ever heard say “half-past …”. She immigrated to the US as a very young girl from Ireland, around 1900. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/29 "2010-10-23T22:52:20Z")
As an interesting aside, in Russian, times and ages are often given in a very confusing fashion. The count is given instead of the time. It’s even more confusing because technically Russia is on the 24-hour clock, but this is not always reflected in speech. For example, what literally means “The 10th hour of evening” == " some time after 9pm and before 10pm". Ages are also often said in this way “He’s in his 11th year”, which means he’s 10. As a child I found that unnecessarily confusing. The clock says 15:15, which means the time is 3:15 but it’s the “4th hour” :dubious:. I understand **why** it’s the fourth hour, but that doesn’t mean that it’s convenient for communication. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/30 "2010-10-23T22:55:02Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I remember my grandmother also saying “half-past seven” instead of “seven thirty.” To this day, she is the only person I have ever heard say “half-past …”. I’d consider “half-past” to be as common, if not more so. David Crystal - whose books on language I’d recommend - had a [blog entry](http://david-crystal.blogspot.com/2009/05/on-quarter-of.html) on “quarter of” and “quarter to” with some etymology. No consensus on its regional variation, though the comments parallel ours. > [@](#): > > The original meaning of the preposition was ‘away from’ (a sense today now usually found with off), as seen in such obsolete usages as not far of the town and still found in relation to compass points (eg north of London) and specified distances (eg within a mile of). … > > The usage with of is less easy to track, because it has also had a dialect use in Scotland and Northern Ireland which probably antedates the US use, though citations are lacking. The earliest OED citation for the American use is 1817. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/31 "2010-10-23T23:02:53Z")
Grew up in upsate NY (Albany area). Born in the late seventies. Quarter of was commonplace. So is five of. I think I would be more likely to say 10 till (or to) than 10 of - probably for the sake alliteration. Almost definitely alliteration now that I think of it, because the same would go for 20 to. Half past would be normal, as would quarter after. Top and bottom half of the hour are 0-30 and 31-59, respectively. As to why one would say quarter of instead of quarter till - well, you say it because that’s what you say. It’s like calling a thing that you sit in and has four legs a chair - you do it because it’s normal. ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/32 "2010-10-23T23:29:29Z")
Raised in Midwest - quarter of was common, and it meant the same as quarter to. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/33 "2010-10-24T00:06:14Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I remember my grandmother also saying “half-past seven” instead of “seven thirty.” To this day, she is the only person I have ever heard say “half-past …”. I don’t recall ever meeting anyone who _didn’t_ say “half past”. From England, if that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/34 "2010-10-24T00:08:03Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > (The one I don’t get is the British way of saying 3:5 as if that means something. Is it supposed to mean 3:05, five after three??) That’s not something I’ve ever heard, and I’m English. Three-oh-five, or five-past-three, sure. Never in my life heard “three-five”. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/35 "2010-10-24T00:09:45Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Are people really this young? No, they’re from different places to you. > [@](#): > > In the era before digital clocks, everybody spoke this way. No, they didn’t. The people near you did. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/36 "2010-10-24T00:20:01Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I grew up in the East, mainly Northeast, and “quarter of eight” was mostly used when it was 7:45. > > I remember my grandmother also saying “half-past seven” instead of “seven thirty.” To this day, she is the only person I have ever heard say “half-past …”. > > She immigrated to the US as a very young girl from Ireland, around 1900. We still say it in Ireland, pretty sure it’s still current in UK too. 2 o’clock five past two ten past two a quarter past two twenty past two twenty-five past two half past two twenty-five to three twenty to three a quarter to three ten to three five to three Etc. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/37 "2010-10-24T02:44:29Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > We still say it in Ireland, pretty sure it’s still current in UK too. > 2 o’clock > > five past two > > ten past two > > a quarter past two > > twenty past two > > twenty-five past two > > half past two > > twenty-five to three > > twenty to three > > a quarter to three > > ten to three > > five to three > > Etc. I am English and would agree with the above except for the “a” preceding “quarter”. It’s “quarter to three” and “quarter past two”. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/38 "2010-10-24T02:59:24Z")
If you really want to talk time oddities, let’s go with this one. Quick, it’s 11:45 pm, night time, right now. How long until 12:15 pm? Half hour, right? Wrong. 12:15 happened 11.5 hours ago, at lunch time. For some reason, someone thought it was wise to make 12 come before 1. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/39 "2010-10-24T03:14:36Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > For some reason, someone thought it was wise to make 12 come before 1. What’s up with that? They didn’t. The day ends at midnight, ie 12. A minute after midnight is 12.01, which comes comes after 12, logically enough. A full hour after the start of the day is 1 hour after midnight. Logically enough, that is one hour of the clock, shortened in common speech to one o’clock. Are you seriously having trouble with this? Do you propose that we call the start of the day one hour after the start of the day? How the hell does that make any sort of sense? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105/40 "2010-10-24T03:23:43Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I dated a girl in college who went to high school with a girl who thought “quarter past three” meant 3:25. She would have been in high school between 1982 and 1986. I remember my father teaching me to tell time, and since a quarter was 25 cents, it took a bit of persuading that a quarter was not 25 minutes too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-expression-quarter-of/558105.md?page=3)