# Time for a deep explanation! (Of the US Political System) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 29, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462 "2016-04-29T22:50:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/41 "2016-05-06T02:14:39Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Its actually not at all a total pile of garbage. Its been successful and fairly stable for a few hundred years - with the exception of our little foray into Civil War (over the states rights to determine if slavery was a thing or not - really about slavery, but under the banner of states rights). There aren’t many governments today that can say the same - and none that have the landmass and population. Come to think of it, AFAIK, not counting micronations like the Vatican and Monaco, there are only two countries in the world that still have the same constitution now as they had in 1789: The U.S. and the UK. And it’s questionable whether the UK really counts; George III was no figurehead, and the House of Lords really meant something then, and even America, where “democracy” was still an offensive word, had a wider voting franchise at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/42 "2016-05-06T02:18:06Z")
The US Constitution _has_ been updated since then… and the practice has changed even more. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/43 "2016-05-06T02:34:33Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Do what 120 other countries did, take an off-the-shelf Parliamentary system and play around with it some. Well, I’m afraid that’s a real sticking point. In a [parliamentary system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_system), the executive has no independent electoral mandate but is elected by the legislature. (For some reason, BTW, that only seems to work where “head of state” and “head of government” are separate positions; all republics which use parliamentary systems have, and seem to think they need, a powerless ceremonial president instead of a powerless ceremonial monarch – except in semi-presidential systems like France, where the president and prime minister both have real power, and how much each has or should have is sometimes a thorny problem.) That would be a way of avoiding gridlock, to be sure, at least as between Congress and the WH. But, some will say – even in this day and age, some Americans will say – that such gridlock is “a feature, not a bug.” One notion deeply and firmly embedded in American political culture is that anything but a separation-of-powers or [presidential system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_system) is “tyranny.” See [Federalist No, 47](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._47) – Madison got that idea from Montesquieu. Of course, both were still groping their way back then, all of this predated the full development of the parliamentary system in the UK and elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/44 "2016-05-06T02:35:29Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > The US Constitution _has_ been updated since then… and the practice has changed even more. But the fundamental government is the same as its been since the Constitution was ratified. There are stupid things (cough…electoral college…cough), but its held up remarkably well - getting us through a lot of change and a few crisis. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/45 "2016-05-06T02:40:38Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > The US Constitution _has_ been updated since then… and the practice has changed even more. Yes, both the American and British constitutional systems have changed since 1789 - but, I think Britain’s has changed far more drastically. The FFs come to life again would at least recognize today’s American system of government, and I doubt Zombie Burke could honestly so recognize today’s British system, it would resemble Revolutionary France entirely too much in his eyes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/46 "2016-05-06T02:47:45Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > But the fundamental government is the same as its been since the Constitution was ratified. There are stupid things (cough…electoral college…cough), but its held up remarkably well - getting us through a lot of change and a few crisis. And also preventing change and causing crises. An America with a parliamentary system might well have done better. I recall something my Mom said in the early '70s after talking to some Brits: In the UK, a PM like Nixon would have resigned the same day something analogous to the Watergate scandal broke; not resigning under those circumstances would have been unthinkable. Which would have been for the best, yes? That’s what Brits call “responsible government.” It can produce monstrosities like Thatcher, but never for one moment longer than the people really want such monstrosities. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/47 "2016-05-06T03:10:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > And the upgrade to ME was Vista. Not a good analogy. ME was followed by XP, a very good system. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/48 "2016-05-06T03:22:50Z")
D’oh…right…Vista was after XP. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/49 "2016-05-06T03:23:32Z")
> [@ianclark01](#): > > Which I cannot give! However, it is clearly time that **somebody with an egg-shaped head** and a lot of time explained why the US political system is such a pile of total garbage, from electioneering, to legislating, and everything in between. You want [Adam Sandler](http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/adam-sandler-01.jpg) to explain the US political system? O-kaaaayyy… ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/50 "2016-05-06T03:32:20Z")
probably one of the reasons its a shtshow in a way that it is not in Europe is because as a bigger country, both populationwise and territorially, the law of large numbers says that a bigger amount will lead to more visible outliers and spread. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/51 "2016-05-06T03:53:05Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > What you have now is like Windows Millennium Edition or something. > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > And the upgrade to ME was Vista. Not a good analogy. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > ME was followed by XP, a very good system. May all Dopers who get any least part of this hide their very existence from the rest of us every single remaining day of their lives, Amen, Selah, So Mote It Be, and Og Wills It. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/52 "2016-05-06T05:43:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not so first-mover after all, then, The entire point of first mover disadvantage is that being ahead early on causes you to be behind later on. America was the first country to get credit cards and so a lot of the banking infrastructure around them is far more antiquated than other developed countries. This makes switching to later systems more expensive which is why American banks lag so far behind on relatively basic banking features. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/53 "2016-05-06T06:09:10Z")
Over the last 225 years or so the US has arguably been the most successful political system in the world. The only major country which is up there would be the UK. Over the last 70 years the competition is more stiff but the US holds up pretty well. If you look at major European countries it’s not clear they have a superior system. Yes their healthcare systems work better and their murder rates are lower but the US has higher median income, lower unemployment, more free speech etc. Broadly speaking the US works about as well as the UK, France and Germany. Similarly Japan has its strengths but some serious shortcomings, its society is more closed, women have fewer opportunities etc. People who think the US political system is terrible needs some serious perspective either from more historical reading or travel around the world to the many countries with truly terrible systems. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/54 "2016-05-06T11:53:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > May all Dopers who get any least part of this hide their very existence from the rest of us every single remaining day of their lives, Amen, Selah, So Mote It Be, and Og Wills It. The world needs puter geeks too… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/55 "2016-05-06T14:31:39Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Over the last 225 years or so the US has arguably been the most successful political system in the world. The only major country which is up there would be the UK. > > Over the last 70 years the competition is more stiff but the US holds up pretty well. If you look at major European countries it’s not clear they have a superior system. Yes their healthcare systems work better and their murder rates are lower but the US has higher median income, lower unemployment, more free speech etc. Broadly speaking the US works about as well as the UK, France and Germany. Similarly Japan has its strengths but some serious shortcomings, its society is more closed, women have fewer opportunities etc. > > People who think the US political system is terrible needs some serious perspective either from more historical reading or travel around the world to the many countries with truly terrible systems. And there is no guarantee that the murder rates would be lower or we’d get UHC with a parliamentary system. Nor that we’d get better results. We would have gotten rid of Nixon faster, but we’d also have gotten rid of Lincoln - and if we’d gotten rid of Lincoln, the country would have ended. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462/56 "2016-05-06T18:13:40Z")
Democracy is messy. It’s only as good as the people make it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-a-deep-explanation-of-the-us-political-system/753462.md?page=2)