# Time for big cuts in the military? Could we start closing America's 800 military bases overseas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 24, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437 "2020-02-24T15:19:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/21 "2020-02-24T21:07:59Z")
> [@Razncain](#): > > So is it sustainable for our economy to continue to spend as much as we are doing on the military and other expenditures, rack up the kind of ridiculous annual deficits we are now getting and the dismal GDP’s we’ve been getting for over a decade now? Are or we setting ourselves up for the same thing that happened to Russia’s economy when they tried to keep up with Reagan’s military build up? Who are we trying to keep up with exactly? Ourselves? > > Today Russia spends 3.9% GDP on the military, $61.4 billion in US dollars. US spent 3.2% GDP, $649 billion. Our NATO total defense spending is over a trillion annually. Look how we yield to Russia often, simply because they have nuclear weapons. Will we feel any less safe if we cut our budget in half? How long can we keep this up? > > China is another matter altogether and has been building up their defense considerably, second biggest spender now at $250 billion (in US dollars). And they are only spending 1.9% GDP to get that. If they roughly matched our GDP spending, their defense spending would almost match ours now. Their economy has been growing at an insane pace often doubling, tripling or quadrupling America every year quite easily for the last 40 years, compare to how ours has been trickling along compared to the same time span. China has managed to do it with little debt, only 5 trillion (in US dollars), compare that to America at 23 trillion. > > It will be a challenge if we can ever break 3.0% GDP ever again, even more remarkable if we did it without another trillion dollar debt being added to the deficit, those days may be gone for a very, very long time. Don’t think we ever fully recovered from the last housing and mortgage crisis. > > At the pace China is going, this is the year they may overtake us as the biggest economy according to the [Business Insider.](https://www.businessinsider.com/us-economy-to-fall-behind-china-within-a-year-standard-chartered-says-2019-1) This is basing it on a combination of purchasing-power-parity-exchange rates and GDP. Using the PPP alone, it said they are already considered the world’s largest economy, but says on a nominal basis the US remains in the lead. > > Next decade, we will fall much further behind, and India will also overtake us. According to their chart, by 2030, six of the 10 largest economies could be in Asia. > > China hasn’t ever been as land hungry as Russia, but once they get up to speed, think we will be in a position to have a chance to keep Taiwan separate from them any longer? Let’s hope that’s all they want. > > I gave up on the definition of military bases for now, got sidetracked. If somebody or military man knows how they are defining it, and can explain the discrepancies, hope they will explain it. > > [Wiki’s Top 15 military by country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures) If your concern is the economy, then focus on the economy, not arbitrarily reducing military spending that has an impact on our strategic political, security, and economic interests. Military spending accounts for a pretty large size of our budget, no doubt, but there are ways to balance the budget and establish economic growth and parity without slashing the military. Consider the fact that the military is a pretty large employer, which doesn’t itself justify spending but it definitely warrants consideration. But the bigger issue is that the budget and our economy are in bad shape (yes, I disagree with the conventional wisdom that it’s good right now- it’s not really that good), and they’re not that way because of some overseas bases. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/22 "2020-02-24T21:08:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That’s because Afghanistan had almost no conventional military to speak of and the Taliban was a small entity. Yeah, this is the part that needs to be considered. the OP talks about “rapid response forces”, which is usually something like Special Forces. There’s a big difference between deploying a team of Green Berets or Navy Seals for a limited operation against a target like a Terrorist training camp, and deploying an armored division to prevent a Russian invasion of Western Europe. You can’t just toss a few hundred tanks onto planes, and drop them anywhere in the world in 12 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/23 "2020-02-24T21:16:43Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Sure the US. The US invasion of Afghanistan took less than a month we had no bases on the ground. We also had practically no troops on the ground. Afghanistan was fighting a protracted civil war and when we intervened, we did so by siding with the Northern Alliance. It was Northern Alliance troops who did the actual fighting against the Taliban. Initial American assistance consisted of air support and a few dozen advisers. And even that, as you point out, took a month not a day. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > Not a single US ally has bases in the US does that mean that we are on our own? If so then shouldn’t our “allies” be on their own? > > Why doesn’t The Philippines have a base in South Korea? They are military allies. Where are Canada’s military bases in Europe? From what I can tell, they both closed around 1993. Does that mean Canada told their allies that “they were on their own and Canada won’t be there for them in a crisis”? The United States isn’t Canada or the Philippines. With all due respect to those countries, they’re not major powers. Small countries can’t stand up to a major power on their own. They need the support of another major power to do so. Estonia, to use your example, remains independent because we support their independence. If we withdrew from Europe, a different major power - in this case, Russia - would step into the void. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > The US doesn’t operate a base in Estonia our ally most likely to be invaded. We help them with construction on one of their bases and several NATO forces rotate through the base. An arrangement like that would make much more sense if we politically need to be there the second the shooting starts. Russia isn’t going to stay out of Estonia because troops from Hungary or Belgium are around. The United States is the country that’s keeping Russia out of Estonia. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/24 "2020-02-24T21:29:15Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > The US isn’t the world’s policeman and shouldn’t be. If we are going to be the police or the fire department, to use your earlier analogy, we need to act like them and be paid by taxes from those we protect. Its still shitty to have our young men and women dying to protect other countries but I’d be more ok with it. Our allies have been paying billions of dollars to the United States each year for decades to cover the cost of American troops based in their countries. Germany, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, the United Kingdom, and other countries all pay us. And our young men and women aren’t dying to protect other countries. We are not at war in Europe or Eastern Asia. There’s a strong argument that we are preventing the outbreak of wars in those regions by having troops present. And stationing troops in a country to prevent a war costs a lot less - in both lives and money - than sending troop to that country after a war starts. So shittiness has been averted and you can start being more okay. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/25 "2020-02-24T21:29:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We also had practically no troops on the ground. Afghanistan was fighting a protracted civil war and when we intervened, we did so by siding with the Northern Alliance. It was Northern Alliance troops who did the actual fighting against the Taliban. Initial American assistance consisted of air support and a few dozen advisers. > > And even that, as you point out, took a month not a day. Yep, it was 18 days from Bush giving his speech announcing what our goals were until we had troops in the region (air force and navy mostly). I’ve never claimed that response time would be instantaneous just that all countries should maintain enough of a military to defend themselves for say 3 weeks. If not maybe they should pay protection to a real country. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The United States isn’t Canada or the Philippines. With all due respect to those countries, they’re not major powers. Small countries can’t stand up to a major power on their own. They need the support of another major power to do so. Almost correct. Multiple smaller countries can form mutual defence pacts and in fact that is what has actually happened in the world. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with NATO but it has much more to do with Russian deturance then the US. I’m not suggesting that the US drop out of NATO just that NATO should be the primary defence of Europe. Or are you suggesting there are no major countries in NATO besides the US? > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Estonia, to use your example, remains independent because we support their independence. If we withdrew from Europe, a different major power - in this case, Russia - would step into the void. Nope NATO member. There is a reason they joined as quickly as they could. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Russia isn’t going to stay out of Estonia because troops from Hungary or Belgium are around. The United States is the country that’s keeping Russia out of Estonia. So you don’t count any one outside of the US as a major power? So its russia and the Us and that is it? ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/26 "2020-02-24T21:41:19Z")
Pretty much, yes. Few of the NATO members spend anything like the 2% of GDP on defence that they are supposed to, and even some of those do it with some creative accounting. Britain has reduced its force levels repeatedly since the end of the Cold War and would struggle to mount even one expeditionary force without US help. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/27 "2020-02-24T21:53:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Our allies have been paying billions of dollars to the United States each year for decades to cover the cost of American troops based in their countries. Germany, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, the United Kingdom, and other countries all pay us. > > And our young men and women aren’t dying to protect other countries. We are not at war in Europe or Eastern Asia. There’s a strong argument that we are preventing the outbreak of wars in those regions by having troops present. And stationing troops in a country to prevent a war costs a lot less - in both lives and money - than sending troop to that country after a war starts. > > So shittiness has been averted and you can start being more okay. I am aware of the payments that subsidize the costs of our bases in foreign countries but it is not paying us like the police you would like us to be. My county sheriff department costs 0.1% of my home value each year and if (stupid idea but I’m running with it) we are going to be the sheriff of the world they should all pay us 0.1% of their GDP. That works out to France paying us 2.5 billion per year. We are no receiving anywhere near that. I would love to see proof of what war the bases in the UK have prevented. You could possibly make an argument for our bases in Korea so that is what 5% of our bases. The rest is a pipe dream. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/28 "2020-02-24T21:54:45Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Nope NATO member. There is a reason they joined as quickly as they could. Yes, but, with a big cut in US defense spending and withdrawal from European bases like you suggest, how much are nations like Hungary and Belgium (as **Little Nemo** pointed out) going to keep Russia out of Estonia? “NATO” is not so magical cure-all military panacea; it only has teeth if it has teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/29 "2020-02-24T22:24:36Z")
Without the US NATO military spending would be $473.79 Billion they would collectively be the second largest military in the world. To suggest NATO is nothing without the US is just wishful thinking. Yes, the US spends 1.5 times more than the rest of NATO combined that is just poor policy inside the country. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/30 "2020-02-24T22:42:42Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Yep, it was 18 days from Bush giving his speech announcing what our goals were until we had troops in the region (air force and navy mostly). Those troops you’re referring to would be the dozens of advisers I already mentioned. The significant amount of troops didn’t arrive until much later. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > I’m not sure if you’re familiar with NATO but it has much more to do with Russian deturance then the US. Based on this thread, I’m willing to speculate I’m more familiar with NATO than you are. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > Or are you suggesting there are no major countries in NATO besides the US? Pretty much. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > So you don’t count any one outside of the US as a major power? So its russia and the Us and that is it? I’d add China. Which I already mentioned in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/31 "2020-02-24T22:45:58Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I am aware of the payments that subsidize the costs of our bases in foreign countries but it is not paying us like the police you would like us to be. I didn’t say NATO was like a police force so I see no reason to argue over that point. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > I would love to see proof of what war the bases in the UK have prevented. You could possibly make an argument for our bases in Korea so that is what 5% of our bases. The rest is a pipe dream. We joined NATO in 1949 and we haven’t fought a war against Russia since then. There’s your proof. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/32 "2020-02-24T23:14:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Those troops you’re referring to would be the dozens of advisers I already mentioned. The significant amount of troops didn’t arrive until much later. Actually, I was referring to the submarines and ships launching missiles and planes not advisers. You seem very army focused so I’ll guess you don’t count the air force personnel flying over. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’d add China. Which I already mentioned in this thread. Got it. I think that’s a crazy point of view but I can’t reason you out of something you didn’t reason yourself into. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/33 "2020-02-24T23:22:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We joined NATO in 1949 and we haven’t fought a war against Russia since then. There’s your proof. Neither has Australia. I’m guessing you’re not counting Vietnam as a proxy war? ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/34 "2020-02-24T23:24:42Z")
I would imagine that a large part of the savings from reducing overseas bases would be in reducing the logistics capabilities we have for supporting those bases. Losing that logistics capability would be a huge hit to readyness when deployments are needed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/35 "2020-02-24T23:47:36Z")
Maybe there are some bases somewhere that should be closed, but South Korea sure as heck isn’t it. First of all, there’s the nature of the threat: If North Korea ever decides to get serious about attacking South Korea, they’ll lead off with artillery. They have enough guns in range of Seoul to reduce the city to rubble and kill everyone in it… eventually. But the moment they start firing, we’ll fire back to destroy as much of their artillery as we can. That’ll save many millions of lives, but to do it, we need to be right there, ready to respond right that minute, not a week or month later. Second, our presence in South Korea acts as a “tripwire”: It sends the clear message to both Koreas and to the rest of the world that an attack on South Korea is an attack on us. If our troops withdraw from the area, and only go back after an attack, they might not go back at all, depending on the political situation at home, and everyone knows it. With them still there, we won’t have any choice but to respond to an attack, and everyone knows that, too. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/36 "2020-02-24T23:51:31Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I believe you are talking about their training center. I’m not aware of them having their own security and checkpoints but I haven’t spent much time on Bliss. I do know that they have been trying to close the training center and move it to Europe due to it being too expensive. Maybe not a base but that is what everyone called it. Even has a school for the kids. Used to drive past it everyday 80-85 when stationed there. Stopped by last month looking for our old quarters. The German training facility is still there. Thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/37 "2020-02-25T02:03:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Maybe there are some bases somewhere that should be closed, but South Korea sure as heck isn’t it. First of all, there’s the nature of the threat: If North Korea ever decides to get serious about attacking South Korea, they’ll lead off with artillery. They have enough guns in range of Seoul to reduce the city to rubble and kill everyone in it… eventually. But the moment they start firing, we’ll fire back to destroy as much of their artillery as we can. That’ll save many millions of lives, but to do it, we need to be right there, ready to respond right that minute, not a week or month later. > > Second, our presence in South Korea acts as a “tripwire”: It sends the clear message to both Koreas and to the rest of the world that an attack on South Korea is an attack on us. If our troops withdraw from the area, and only go back after an attack, they might not go back at all, depending on the political situation at home, and everyone knows it. With them still there, we won’t have any choice but to respond to an attack, and everyone knows that, too. I think it is wrong to lump all Korean bases together. Yangsan has basically been closed and everything moved to Humphreys. Osan serves no purpose in the defence of Seoul and neither does Deagu or Kunsan. I’m not sure how the response from Misawa is meaningfully slower if we’re talking about scrambling planes to destroy the artillery. I dislike using our troops as a tripwire to force politicians into war. You are correct that it is what we are doing and it is a similar strategy to why we were in West Germany. Of course the tripwire in Germany has lost a lot of its value but we hang on to it for inerteral purposes. By the way I just found [this list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_overseas_military_bases) of military bases that different countries have around the world. There are several training bases that other countries have in the US. I think its useful for comparing the US to other countries and how they use their military budgets. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/38 "2020-02-25T02:36:52Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Got it. I think that’s a crazy point of view but I can’t reason you out of something you didn’t reason yourself into. In this thread you’ve said that you think Germany and France could move troops to Estonia within a day, that no American troops were stationed in Korea in 1950, that Filipino troops were in Korea before American troops, that other countries pay nothing to the United States for military bases, that Russia and China made some kind of attack across the Pacific Ocean in WWII, that we deployed submarines in Afghanistan, and that China isn’t a major military power. These factual errors are in addition to numerous spelling and grammatical mistakes. So I don’t think you’re in a position to assume you hold some intellectual high ground and can condescend to the rest of us. It’s pretty clear you’re the least informed person in this thread and the rest of us have had to explain some really basic concepts to you. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/39 "2020-02-25T14:10:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In this thread you’ve said that you think Germany and France could move troops to Estonia within a day, that no American troops were stationed in Korea in 1950, that Filipino troops were in Korea before American troops, that other countries pay nothing to the United States for military bases, that Russia and China made some kind of attack across the Pacific Ocean in WWII, that we deployed submarines in Afghanistan, and that China isn’t a major military power. These factual errors are in addition to numerous spelling and grammatical mistakes. > > So I don’t think you’re in a position to assume you hold some intellectual high ground and can condescend to the rest of us. It’s pretty clear you’re the least informed person in this thread and the rest of us have had to explain some really basic concepts to you. I have used Germany and France as Major powers in NATO that could take the place of US fast deployment in the event that Estonia was invaded. If Germany sending troops 1,000 miles is too much for fast deployment then NATO is worthless. There are also closer NATO members but you only care about “major powers”. My understanding is that American combat troops had fully withdrawn from ROK prior to the start of the Korean War and were stationed in Japan. I’m happy to be corrected if you’ve got some better history books that show task force Smith being in Korea prior to the invasion. I did not assert that other countries pay nothing for US bases my claim was they need to pay us like policemen the paltry current amounts are not even close to how police paid. The US navy does not need to have boots on the ground to be deployed in a region any more than the air force does. There were 5 US submarines launching long range missiles into Afghanistan at the start of Operation Enduring Freedom (there were also two british subs) there were also 5 aircraft carriers that covered 70% of the fighter missions. Many of these strikes were guided by the people you referred to as advisors. Much of the first 10 days of OEF was entirely run by the navy. I’m not sure how any of that disagrees with me saying that subs were deployed initially to Afghanistan. I never asserted China wasn’t a major power. I was asking to understand the world which seems very limited to what you see on the news at night. At a minimum i would say that all members of the G8 are major powers. If you were a lumper and not a splitter then I would include the overlapping EU/NATO members as at least a 4th great power and a decent argument for OPEC countries to be lumped and included through their economic power has declined and they are too dispersed physically and politically to be a military power. Further I think all nuclear powers should at least get a mention as large regional powers and most of them have an argument for being world powers too. I really don’t care about my spelling and grammer in general and in posting here in between things that matter I am extremely casual. But I am extremely comfortable saying that thinking there are only 3 major powers is a crazy thought. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437/40 "2020-02-25T14:38:16Z")
Oh, sorry I see I forgot the Phillies were there before the Americans. That was indeed a screwup. My apologies. They were there before MacArthur and the Inchon invasion but the US did have troops on the ground before them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-big-cuts-in-the-military-could-we-start-closing-americas-800-military-bases-overseas/848437.md?page=3)