# Time for USC to pay the piper? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624 "2010-06-10T05:45:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/21 "2010-06-10T22:05:53Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > The thing that I hate, and I don’t really now a way around it, is that it really punishes the current players and \*\*coaches \*\*(and students for that matter) for something they themselves didn’t do. (Bolding mine) I dunno, I’m willing to bet Lane Kiffin knew what was going on. At least he will experience some payback. I’m sure Pete Carroll knew what was going down, and therefore knew how bad the sanctions would be, which is why he hightailed it off to Seattle after turning down NFL offers for half a decade. (I know, I know, he insisted the NCAA investigation had nothing to do with his decision. I didn’t believe him then either). As a Bruin, I’m delighted, although I admit my hypocracy. I remember that our last run at national significance (1997-1998) came while Bob Toledo was running a dirty program. And Karl Dorrell cleaned house, ran a clean program, and except for one 10-0 start season, had a very mediocre record on the field. So kids, the lesson is, cheat, but don’t get caught!!!:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/22 "2010-06-10T22:11:31Z")
W00t! Woot woot woot! ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/23 "2010-06-10T22:15:45Z")
[Here](http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/995/952139.pdf) is a link for the NCAA infractions report on USC. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/24 "2010-06-10T22:45:49Z")
Does anybody know if probation is retroactivly applied? Since these events are from 2004ish, would another found violation from say 2008 count as repeat offense under major probation? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/25 "2010-06-10T23:03:25Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Kinda wonder if Oklahoma is now going to claim they were national champs for the 2004 season… Yes, we will. It won’t make any difference and no one will listen to us but we will. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/26 "2010-06-10T23:18:38Z")
…and, of course, so will Auburn. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/27 "2010-06-10T23:18:46Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Yes, we will. It won’t make any difference and no one will listen to us but we will. Wouldn’t make any sense to claim it since Auburn finished the year #2 and undefeated. Of course, it is in their nature for OU to claim things that don’t belong them (hence the name [Sooners](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sooners)). ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/28 "2010-06-10T23:20:54Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Does anybody know if probation is retroactivly applied? Since these events are from 2004ish, would another found violation from say 2008 count as repeat offense under major probation? Yes, that would be a repeat offense. The 2004 offense is itself a repeat offense since they had a major violation occur within five years of that (August 2001). ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/29 "2010-06-10T23:23:47Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > Wouldn’t make any sense to claim it since Auburn finished the year #2 and undefeated. Of course, it is in their nature for OU to claim things that don’t belong them (hence the name [Sooners](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sooners)). [Apparently](http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-southerncaliforniasanctions-bcs), the 2004 BCS Championship would be left vacant. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/30 "2010-06-10T23:43:25Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > Wouldn’t make any sense to claim it since Auburn finished the year #2 and undefeated. Of course, it is in their nature for OU to claim things that don’t belong them (hence the name [Sooners](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sooners)). ISTM that to claim to be BCS champion, you should at least have to play in the championship game. Preferably you would have won it but we’ll take what we can get. Much like UT and their 2008 Big 12[championship\*](http://www.faniq.com/blog/Texas-Longhorns-Claim-2008-Big-XII-Championship-Blog-21818). ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/31 "2010-06-10T23:56:36Z")
> [@Ogre's cite](#): > > USC is more powerful than the NCAA. If we put enough $$$ into it, we can fight this thing. I think USC should sue the NCAA and force the NCAA to withdraw any sanctions. This is friggen b.s. That’s absolutely hilarious. Thankfully, the majority of USC fans are (I hope, based on the small sample I know and have encountered) much more gracious losers, and realistic people who are rightfully angry at Carroll rather than the NCAA. Why they aren’t currently directing that anger at the AD or Kiffin, I really don’t know. Frankly, I think it’d be in USC’s best interest to tell Lane to pack it up before he coaches his first game. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/32 "2010-06-10T23:59:35Z")
From Pete Carroll: "“I’m absolutely shocked and disappointed at the findings by the NCAA. I never ever thought it would come to this. After nine years of working at the university and going through all of the challenges and accomplishments that all of the people took part in, I’m extremely disappointed that we have to deal with this right now. I never thought there was any facts that supported these significant sanctions that have come forth. “The primary issue during the process was, did the university know? The university didn’t know, we didn’t know. We were not aware of any of these findings. I think it’s important for you to know that through all aspects of the program, we were vigilant. In the way we approached every aspect, we always were out there to do things better than they it’s ever been done before. “The agenda of the NCAA infractions committee took them beyond the facts. And the facts don’t match the sanctions. I absolutely support the appeal by the university and will do everything I can to contribute to their efforts. “This is clearly a case of external elements outside of the university setting entering in and disrupting the process of the young student athletes going to college, for their game. It’s time for the NCAA and the universities to come together to elevate the awareness and the understanding of the vulnerability of college athletes and their families. We need to be proactive and work in every way to protect this college experience for our kids. “I feel terrible for the Trojan family that we have to go through this. But, as always, we’ll be strong and we’ll keep our heads up and we’ll keep fighting on. I’ll continue to support and cooperate, again, the appeal process and do everything I can to help. Fight on.” Yeah Pete. Pull the other one. It has bells on it. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/33 "2010-06-11T00:04:55Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > From Pete Carroll: > “I feel terrible for the Trojan family that we have to go through this. But, as always, we’ll be strong and we’ll keep our heads up and we’ll keep fighting on. I’ll continue to support and cooperate, again, the appeal process and do everything I can to help. Fight on.” Who exactly is this “we” that you’re referring to Pete? You and Paul Allen? ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/34 "2010-06-11T00:10:56Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > ISTM that to claim to be BCS champion, you should at least have to play in the championship game. Preferably you would have won it but we’ll take what we can get. Much like UT and their 2008 Big 12[championship\*](http://www.faniq.com/blog/Texas-Longhorns-Claim-2008-Big-XII-Championship-Blog-21818). Presumably they would claim to be the National Champion and not the BCS Champion. That sort of seems to be obvious. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/35 "2010-06-11T00:15:07Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Much like UT and their 2008 Big 12[championship\*](http://www.faniq.com/blog/Texas-Longhorns-Claim-2008-Big-XII-Championship-Blog-21818). Texas did beat both Big 12 Championship game participants by double figures and finish with a better record than both and a higher ranking. Further, I’m guessing Art Briles at Baylor wishes he didn’t vote OU #1 and Texas #5 now that he is about to be relegated to the WAC (or whereever). ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/36 "2010-06-11T00:19:14Z")
I’m glad the NCAA is finally bringing the hammer down. I’m sure Carrol and the AD didn’t ‘know’ anything. The people spending the money have no reason to tell them anything. Now they damn sure have to know what is going on, but they have no actual knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/37 "2010-06-11T00:22:32Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > Yes, that would be a repeat offense. The 2004 offense is itself a repeat offense since they had a major violation occur within five years of that (August 2001). Good. Cause I still find it damn hard to believe that 3 5 star running back would go there every year to sit on the bench behind the 5 they already have if there wasn’t something worth giving up an NFL shot. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/38 "2010-06-11T01:01:50Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I’m glad the NCAA is finally bringing the hammer down. I’m sure Carrol and the AD didn’t ‘know’ anything. The people spending the money have no reason to tell them anything. Now they damn sure have to know what is going on, but they have no actual knowledge. In saying that, they would seem to be admitting to a “lack of institutional control.” ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/39 "2010-06-11T02:45:47Z")
I just wish the NCAA would have really brought the hammer down, and forced the USC band to learn a different song. “This is the ooooonly song we know, it’s boooooring and it’s slow…” ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624/40 "2010-06-11T05:29:55Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I just wish the NCAA would have really brought the hammer down, and forced the USC band to learn a different song. I was informed once by a USC fan that the band actually plays two, count 'em, **two** different songs – one for offence and one for defence. They’re really stretching their repertoir these days. Although it’s not like anyone can tell the difference between them, anyway… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-for-usc-to-pay-the-piper/542624.md?page=3)