# TIME Magazine: French people are "Frogs" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 22, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751 "2008-09-22T22:47:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ookpik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c68b51/32.png) [@ookpik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ookpik)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/41 "2008-09-23T05:07:23Z")
> [@movingfinger](#): > > Calling the Russians “Russkies” just doesn’t cut it as a slur. You mighr try “Borscht Breaths”. Mmm, no, that’s pretty weak, too. Let me work on this a bit. > > As to the French being called Frogs, I read that when Pepsi Cola tried to break Coca-Cola’s stranglehold on the Canadian soft drink market back in the seventies they decided the place to start was Quebec. This resulted in Anglophone Canadians calling the Quebecois “Pepsis”. > > Any truth to this? Yes. Absolutely. Pepsi is the Cola of choice in this province. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/42 "2008-09-23T05:18:53Z")
> [@ookpik](#): > > Yes. Absolutely. Pepsi is the Cola of choice in this province. Or “Pepper” as the slang later evolved. I remember my cousin in Montreal saying things like, “Look at those two Peppers on the corner.” It wasn’t a term of endearment. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/43 "2008-09-23T05:25:20Z")
> [@movingfinger](#): > > Calling the Russians “Russkies” just doesn’t cut it as a slur. You mighr try “Borscht Breaths”. Mmm, no, that’s pretty weak, too. Let me work on this a bit. Right . . . I’m no expert on Russian culture or anything but I’ve been there twice and one of my best friends is Russian - born there and lived there until his 20s. Calling a Russian a Russki is quite equivalent to calling an American and American. It’s just not a slur unless maybe you spit in their face and kick them in the balls while saying it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/44 "2008-09-23T07:15:35Z")
> [@WilhelmGefallen](#): > > I’ve always been under the impression that the Brits are Roast Beefs because that’s all they are good at cooking, rather than because of their fondness for it or complexion(?). Well in all fairness to the Brits, their cooking has improved greatly over the past quarter century. But in all fairness to humor at the expense of Brits’ legendary inability to cook, they didn’t used to be good at roast beef. They conquered places all over the world so that they could import some cooks and get some good take-out back in Blighty. On edit: in all fairness, you may want an actual answer to the question, which I don’t have. But if stuck in a genuine English pub, go for the fish and chips and mushy peas, wash it down with Guiness. Hope the fish filet is Icelandic cod and slather each bite as you eat it with malt vinegar and tarter sauce. Do not eat mutton. Make sure any steak ordered is not mutton! ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/45 "2008-09-23T07:19:11Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Um… huh? > > The term “Frogs” comes from the French delicacy “frog legs”. Not so: The banner of Charlemagne had depictions of toads on it. The British mistakenly thought they were frogs. The epithet stuck ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/46 "2008-09-23T07:41:13Z")
There’s sometimes some good natured bantering between myself and my French friends with the “roast beef” and “frog” jokes thrown around. Same as over here with my Danish friends, they tease me that British woman aren’t as good looking as Danish women…I just reply by telling them it’s only because they came over and stole a bunch of good looking British women centuries ago since they were so lacking in talent over here, so really their good looks come from the Brits 😉 …between friends it’s appropriate, by an official publication…less so. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/47 "2008-09-23T07:55:24Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Not so: > > The banner of Charlemagne had depictions of toads on it. > > The British mistakenly thought they were frogs. > > The epithet stuck Also King Clovis had frogs on his banners and at one time the coat of arms of the city of Paris also had frogs on it ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/48 "2008-09-23T08:22:25Z")
An English friend of mine does get annoyed at the term “Limeys”. She would much prefer “Brits” if it needs to be used at all. ---
**Author:** ![Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abby_Emma_Sasha)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/49 "2008-09-23T08:37:18Z")
I prefer the term “cheese eating surrender monkeys”. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/50 "2008-09-23T10:46:14Z")
> [@Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](#): > > I prefer the term “cheese eating surrender monkeys”. Interestingly enough, Jeremy Clarkson described the French as “Surrender Monkeys” whilst test driving a Renault Clio on last night’s episode of _Top Gear_, and then proceeded to make a number of jokes about the car’s steering “surrendering” too easily and the car ending up “in a pillar of its own smoke with its hands up”; not to mention a number of good-natured jokes about the French and their proclivity for wine, women, and cheese. It’s quite hard to explain the Anglo-French Love/Hate relationship to people who aren’t really familiar with it… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CircleofWillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/51 "2008-09-23T10:59:53Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > REALLY? I never heard that term before! > > My brother (04-15-57) and I (05-16-56) are Irish twins! I’ll add a “me too” here. Me: born July 4,1967, sis: June 29, 1968 ---
**Author:** ![Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abby_Emma_Sasha)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/52 "2008-09-23T11:05:01Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Interestingly enough, Jeremy Clarkson described the French as “Surrender Monkeys” whilst test driving a Renault Clio on last night’s episode of _Top Gear_, and then proceeded to make a number of jokes about the car’s steering “surrendering” too easily and the car ending up “in a pillar of its own smoke with its hands up”; not to mention a number of good-natured jokes about the French and their proclivity for wine, women, and cheese. > > It’s quite hard to explain the Anglo-French Love/Hate relationship to people who aren’t really familiar with it… 😉 Oh, I love cheese, make no mistake about that. The French should be allowed to live solely for inventing it.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/53 "2008-09-23T11:10:08Z")
> [@hopesperson](#): > > Is French even a “race”? In the old meaning by which “race” = “culture,” yes. It’s the same meaning used by those defining Latino or Hispanic as “race,” as it’s actually a cultural label (and a self-applied one at that). ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/54 "2008-09-23T11:23:06Z")
[QUOTE=Martini Enfield] It’s quite hard to explain the Anglo-French Love/Hate relationship to people who aren’t really familiar with it… 😉 [/QUOTE] But for the most part it is a good natured thing (excluding certain tabloids and idiot segments of society). It’s not meant with malice, it’s almost more the sort of teasing you get between siblings. We fought for hundreds of years but now we’re getting along, but it doesn’t stop us taking the piss out of each other 🙂 I just get the feeling that there’s more malice intended from the US (not all of it! I don’t have my flame proof suit on) in a sort of “how dare you challenge us?” sort of way. Always amusing to point out the damn big statue sitting off of NYC in those cases however 😉 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/55 "2008-09-23T12:10:59Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Not so: > > The banner of Charlemagne had depictions of toads on it. > > The British mistakenly thought they were frogs. > > The epithet stuck Not true. If you can provide a cite where the British referred to the French as “frogs” before1778, I’d be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/56 "2008-09-23T12:11:20Z")
> [@movingfinger](#): > > \As to the French being called Frogs, I read that when Pepsi Cola tried to break Coca-Cola’s stranglehold on the Canadian soft drink market back in the seventies they decided the place to start was Quebec. This resulted in Anglophone Canadians calling the Quebecois “Pepsis”. > > Any truth to this? From what **I** heard, at the time, Coke and Pepsi were priced differently, Pepsi being cheaper and French-speaking Quebeckers being poorer than Anglos, they drank Pepsi (or even [Kik Cola](http://www.usedwinnipeg.com/classified-ad/6294316)). As for Frog being offensive in Quebec… meh. But don’t call us “Pea soups” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/57 "2008-09-23T12:13:37Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Also King Clovis had frogs on his banners and at one time the coat of arms of the city of Paris also had frogs on it Even if these are true, there’s no indication that the British called the French “frogs” in any manner before 1778. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/58 "2008-09-23T13:22:54Z")
**RickJay** , I think you are doubly wrong. The article is fine, you are choosing to take offense from it. And where you said > [@](#): > > I know it’s been even more fashionable since the Iraq War to have a weird hate on for France, is not accurate, I has been fashionable to take shots at the French in the US far longer than the start of the Iraq war. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/59 "2008-09-23T13:37:15Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > An English friend of mine does get annoyed at the term “Limeys”. She would much prefer “Brits” if it needs to be used at all. Really? I can’t imagine anybody getting offended over that. If anything, I think a load of nicknames/jokes people have for other nationalities are pretty funny. “English raincoats”, a French nickname for condoms, always makes me laugh. People need to lighten up, I think. “Irish confetti” and “Irish twins” (although isn’t that more a Catholic thing, rather than a specifically Irish joke?) are pretty funny, too. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751/60 "2008-09-23T13:39:27Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Are people _really_ offended by some of this stuff or are the ultra-PC types just offended on their behalf? I’m certainly not offended, but I do think that casual terms that regard ethnicity are pretty passe at this point. These things were probably a bigger deal a generation or two ago when everyone lived in “their neighborhood” and didn’t mix much with other people. Now if I hear anyone say those kinds of things I just figure that they don’t know where it comes from and don’t mean harm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-magazine-french-people-are-frogs/464751.md?page=4)