# Time & Newsweek drop pretense; embrace liberalism as survival strategy! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2009, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421 "2009-01-22T07:02:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/41 "2009-01-22T15:11:16Z")
If I was in a really sarcastic mood I’d advise **Starving Artist** to get his conservative friends to read more magazines. Then market forces might push Newsweek back toward the center. Sarah Palin reads ALL the magazines, but she can’t do it alone! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/42 "2009-01-22T15:15:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But you aren’t being consistent. If it is not OK for talk radio to lean right, why don’t you object when _Time_ and _Newsweek_ (and CBS and NBC and ABC, and the New York Times and the Washington Post and PBS and the LA Times - and the SDMB) lean left? The traditional answer is that radio, unlike print, uses limited publicly owned bandwidth. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/43 "2009-01-22T15:22:36Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > The traditional answer is that radio, unlike print, uses limited publicly owned bandwidth. And PBS doesn’t? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/44 "2009-01-22T15:27:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m being consistent: I said “I don’t like biased news at all,” which I believe constitutes an objection… > I don’t think the media leans left as a whole. So you are being consistent in objecting to biased news, of which there isn’t any, except on the right. _:shrugs:_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/45 "2009-01-22T15:30:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you are being consistent in objecting to biased news, of which there isn’t any, except on the right. Now you’re just failing to read. Maybe that’s why it doesn’t pay to run a magazine and aim for conservatives. I said the media, on the whole, does not lean left. That doesn’t mean there are zero left-biased media outlets. In fact I specifically named one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/46 "2009-01-22T15:36:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Of course they’re trying to appeal to a more liberal audience. Because the mass audience is, in fact, more liberal than it was. [Just](http://people-press.org/report/312/trends-in-political-values-and-core-attitudes-1987-2007) [so.](http://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Democratic-Majority-John-Judis/dp/0743254783/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-0323301-0796122?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182621390&sr=1-1) And, you must understand, **Starving,** that’s a **permanent** realignment, resulting not merely from any momentary fashion or swing of a hypothetical pendulum or disgust with the last 8 years, but from demographic and generational changes. Republicans had better resign themselves to loyal-opposition status – indefinitely. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/47 "2009-01-22T15:36:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And PBS doesn’t? > > Regards, > Shodan Is that a rebuttal, or just another stupid right wing talking point? Christ, it’s no wonder you dudes got pasted in the polls. Keep it up! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/48 "2009-01-22T15:41:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Just](http://people-press.org/report/312/trends-in-political-values-and-core-attitudes-1987-2007) [so.](http://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Democratic-Majority-John-Judis/dp/0743254783/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-0323301-0796122?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182621390&sr=1-1) And, you must understand, **Starving,** that’s a **permanent** realignment, resulting not merely from any momentary fashion or swing of a hypothetical pendulum or disgust with the last 8 years, but from demographic and generational changes. Republicans had better resign themselves to loyal-opposition status – indefinitely. Snort. Before you go all Hegelian on us, recall that four years ago Karl Rove was working on a Permanent Republican Majority. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/49 "2009-01-22T15:46:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Just](http://people-press.org/report/312/trends-in-political-values-and-core-attitudes-1987-2007) [so.](http://www.amazon.com/Emerging-Democratic-Majority-John-Judis/dp/0743254783/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-0323301-0796122?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182621390&sr=1-1) And, you must understand, **Starving,** that’s a **permanent** realignment, resulting not merely from any momentary fashion or swing of a hypothetical pendulum or disgust with the last 8 years, but from demographic and generational changes. Republicans had better resign themselves to loyal-opposition status – indefinitely. No realignment is permanent. You of all people should know that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/50 "2009-01-22T15:49:11Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > No realignment is permanent. You of all people should know that. Well, let’s say, not evanescent. We’re talking about changes that operate on a generational time scale. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/51 "2009-01-22T15:52:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Snort. Before you go all Hegelian on us, recall that four years ago Karl Rove was working on a Permanent Republican Majority. Yes, and Rove tried to do it by locking in place as many structural and institutional advantages as possible in terms of redistricting, control of judgeships, voter ID laws, etc., because he knew voter demographics alone would not be enough to preserve Pub dominance. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/52 "2009-01-22T16:58:13Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I’ve been arsed lately to do a little digging into how things have progressed over the last hundred years or so in this country and have been rather surprised to learn that liberalism, despite the more conservative society that existed then, actually made its greatest gains - and in fact was the dominant ideology - from around the turn of the century up to around 1980. :eek: You were **surprised** to learn this? Good lord, **SA** , you’ve been kvetching about liberalism all these years here on the Dope and you **just now** learned this elementary fact? Well, that explains a lot, actually. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Since that time, we’ve not only halted liberal progress No comment. 😃 > [@Starving Artist](#): > > but we’ve actually taken the lead. Prior to the last election, we’ve elected Republican presidents five out of seven times; the philosophies of the New Deal and The Great Society have been largely repudiated; socialism has been all but abandoned, and capitalism has reigned supreme. This is overstated, but it more or less describes the general trend of the conservative shift that began in the Reagan years (and which is no news to anybody but you, apparently). However, the pendulum is now swinging back in the other direction. The economic insecurities produced by the dominance of crony capitalism have begun to alarm many people who had earlier jumped on Reagan’s “government is the problem” bandwagon. At the same time, corrupt conservatives’ cynical exploitation of unpleasant attitudes like prejudice against gays and religious persecution complexes, in order to garner support for their own looting-and-pillaging agenda, has started to piss off a lot of decent people. To top off, the campaign and election of a black President has increased interest and participation in the political process among many non-conservatives who had become apathetic and uninvolved. As a result of all this, liberal ideas and policies are going to get more serious consideration in mainstream politics in the near future than they have for the past quarter-century or so. Poor **Starving Artist** —all that time you were pissing and moaning about how the liberals were taking over and destroying society, you were actually living in an era of relative conservative dominance, and you didn’t even realize it until it was nearly over! > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Republicans had better resign themselves to loyal-opposition status – indefinitely. With all due respect, that’s nonsense. Republicans are going to do what out-of-favor political parties have always done: shift some of their positions to accomodate long-term changes in society, and take advantage of popular dissatisfaction with the inevitable failures of some of the approaches advocated by the dominant party. Thirty-five years from now, the official Republican Party platform will defend, for example, full civil rights for homosexuals, just as they now support full civil rights for blacks and women, and most Republicans will probably not even know that their party was ever officially opposed to those positions. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/53 "2009-01-22T17:00:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Will Lie for Food”. They already do. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/54 "2009-01-22T17:32:31Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > With all due respect, that’s nonsense. Republicans are going to do what out-of-favor political parties have always done: shift some of their positions to accomodate long-term changes in society, and take advantage of popular dissatisfaction with the inevitable failures of some of the approaches advocated by the dominant party. > > Thirty-five years from now, the official Republican Party platform will defend, for example, full civil rights for homosexuals, just as they now support full civil rights for blacks and women, and most Republicans will probably not even know that their party was ever officially opposed to those positions. Agreed. Perhaps instead of “Republicans” I should have said “conservatives.” My point is, the modern American [ideological conservative movement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10542172&highlight=wooldridge#post10542172) that goes back to [Robert Taft,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taft) became self-aware with the Goldwater campaign of 1964, triumphed with Reagan and was discredited by W, now is doomed to long-term decline. It is **not** going away, of course, it has too well-established a network of grassroots organizations, astroturf organizations, think-tanks, wholly-owned media outlets and wealthy donors; but it will find itself struggling up a steeper hill every election cycle, and we will live to see it reduced to near-irrelevance. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/55 "2009-01-22T17:37:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We’re talking about changes that operate on a generational time scale. Viva La Revolucion! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/56 "2009-01-22T17:44:10Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Viva La Revolucion! Revolutions operate on an **abrupt** time scale. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/57 "2009-01-22T17:51:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … I’ve been arsed lately to do a little digging into how things have progressed over the last hundred years or so in this country and have been rather surprised to learn that liberalism, despite the more conservative society that existed then, actually made its greatest gains - and in fact was the dominant ideology - from around the turn of the century up to around 1980. … Examples of the “greatest gains” you’ve found would be? (You could throw something showing the dominance of liberalism as an ideology in too, if you’d be so kind.) CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/58 "2009-01-22T18:13:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, let’s say, not evanescent. We’re talking about changes that operate on a generational time scale. Eight years isn’t a generation. That’s likely how long the GOP will be in the woods. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/59 "2009-01-22T18:15:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Revolutions operate on an **abrupt** time scale. Yeah, that Industrial Revolution was a real page turner. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421/60 "2009-01-22T18:24:48Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Yeah, that Industrial Revolution was a real page turner. Ironically enough, the invention of the steam-powered printing press in about 1810 revolutionized the publishing industry nearly as much as Gutenberg’s press did in the 15th century. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-newsweek-drop-pretense-embrace-liberalism-as-survival-strategy/482421.md?page=4)