# Time Person of the Year **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921 "2013-12-09T20:35:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/21 "2013-12-10T20:11:45Z")
The Pope hasn’t really done anything yet, other than being elected. He’s made noises about combating poverty, but every Pope makes those noises. He’s really only distinguished himself by actually being nice to people. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Are there really that many folks whose minds were changed by Snowden, or international relationships significantly changed by his actions? The latter, certainly. What’s been the major international issue of the past year? Spying, with Syria a close second. I guess you could say that stuff was touched off by Wikileaks, and that Snowden was just piling on, but really he was the touchstone for a much bigger fire. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/22 "2013-12-10T20:14:32Z")
Well, yes, folks have talked about spying, but all the protests sounded to me like they’d just found out that there’s gambling going on in this joint. Were any specific international relationships specifically changed? If so, which relationships, and in what way were they changed? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/23 "2013-12-10T20:23:54Z")
You mean other than [negotiations with China over hacking, negotiations with Russia over cooperative nuclear reduction](http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/05/edward_snowdens_butterfly_effect_unlikely_winners_losers#sthash.3AFRVzEA.dpbs), forcing [us and our allies to change antiterrorism techniques](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/08/world/europe/british-intelligence-chiefs-say-snowden-leaks-hurt.html), and taking chunks out of [entire sectors of the tech market](http://www.cnbc.com/id/101202361)? ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/24 "2013-12-10T20:35:06Z")
> [@Iamnotivan](#): > > Where is Doonesbury - he was away for months and it was just Hell getting up each morning without his making lie worthwhile. Now that he is back - better than ever - life is great! If Doonesbury had any say in the matter, Elizabeth Warren would probably be the winner. I voted for Pope Francis, but I think Obama and Cruz will share it, although (a) Obama won last year, and (b) just what was Cruz’s role in the sequester and the government shutdown? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/25 "2013-12-10T20:43:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You mean other than [negotiations with China over hacking, negotiations with Russia over cooperative nuclear reduction](http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/05/edward_snowdens_butterfly_effect_unlikely_winners_losers#sthash.3AFRVzEA.dpbs), forcing [us and our allies to change antiterrorism techniques](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/08/world/europe/british-intelligence-chiefs-say-snowden-leaks-hurt.html), and taking chunks out of [entire sectors of the tech market](http://www.cnbc.com/id/101202361)? No, I don’t mean other than that, since I was asking a real question. I’ll look at your links and see if I agree with you that these constitute significant changes in international relationships. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/26 "2013-12-10T20:43:58Z")
has there ever been a selected in adjacent years? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/27 "2013-12-10T20:45:59Z")
El Papa followed by Miley Cyrus. Both steered the public’s conversation in different ways, but they were both talked about. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m not sure that Snowden actually changed many people’s minds, or changed the conversation. It seems to me that he confirmed what most folks already knew EXACTLY. How many movies have been released in the last 20 years that show the government (and sometimes specifically the NSA) as some all-knowing spy organization that reads/listens to EVERYTHING. _Enemy of the State_ is on TNT every other weekend. You’d figure that every American has seen it at least six times since it came out and should have figured the government was already up to these kinds of shenanigans. Hell, _The Conversation_ was released in **1974**. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/28 "2013-12-10T20:50:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They say His Holiness can really get his twerk on when he’s had a couple of glasses of wine. I hear he likes to mingle with the [hoi- polloi.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517275/Pope-Francis-sneaking-Vatican-night-money-poor.html) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/29 "2013-12-10T20:54:22Z")
Okay. Following your first link, there’s precious few specifics about negotiations with China over hacking or negotiations with Russia over nuclear reduction–just a vague mention. These vague mentions are entirely consistent with my impression that people are waving their hands and making a lot of noise, but that nobody is really surprised by what’s happening and all the handwaving is pure point-scoring. Your second link is behind a paywall, and your summary is vague enough that I’m not sure how to Google a different story. Your third link isn’t about relationships between nations (i.e., international relationships–I’m not talking about long-distance marriages, nor about multinational coporations, but relationships among nations). Anyway, it’s all speculation, including CISCO’s CEO: > [@article](#): > > “I think we’re all aware of that.” said Robert Lloyd, Cisco’s president of development and sales. “It’s not having material impact, but it’s certainly causing people to stop and then rethink decisions. And that is, I think, reflected in our results.” [emphasis added] If you have some links that show that negotiations with China over hacking have been seriously impacted, or something similar re: Russia and nukes, I’d be interested in seeing that. I’ve not followed the story obsessively, but I have followed it, and nothing I’ve seen rises to the level of significant changes in international relationships. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/30 "2013-12-10T20:58:12Z")
My initial (incorrect) thought was Elon Musk. Snowden wins though. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/31 "2013-12-10T21:08:00Z")
Either Pope Francis or Edward Snowden would be reasonable choices. Some of these choices have got to be a joke (Miley Cyrus? :rolleyes:) Obama isn’t in the “joke” category, but you can’t deny that he’s a lame duck these days. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/32 "2013-12-10T21:17:11Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Recall that Time’s criterion for the person of the year is supposedly the individual who has had the biggest impact on the news, good or bad, for the year. They have often tossed that criterion in the trash to either avoid giving it to someone they don’t like, or to make some political point. A perfect example of Time ignoring their criterion was for the 2001 POTY, By the standard of “biggest impact on the news, good or bad,” the clear & obvious choice would have been Osama bin Laden. But Time just didn’t have the guts to name him. They also couldn’t bring themselves to name the next-most-obvious choice, George W Bush. So, they named Rudy Giuliani, because he… err… give me a moment here… …uh, he had the dubious fortune to be the mayor of New York during the 9/11 attacks? Yeah, that must be it. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/33 "2013-12-10T21:27:34Z")
I voted for Pope Francis . . . not because I agree with everything he’s said, but because he’s shaking things up in the Vatican. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/34 "2013-12-10T21:53:36Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > A perfect example of Time ignoring their criterion was for the 2001 POTY, By the standard of “biggest impact on the news, good or bad,” the clear & obvious choice would have been Osama bin Laden. But Time just didn’t have the guts to name him. They also couldn’t bring themselves to name the next-most-obvious choice, George W Bush. So, they named Rudy Giuliani, because he… err… give me a moment here… > > …uh, he had the dubious fortune to be the mayor of New York during the 9/11 attacks? Yeah, that must be it. Pardon my ignorance but I can’t remember if it was factually definitive (or at least close enough for Journalism) that it was Bin Laden by the time the issue was set to print? Or if it was ever factually definitive, other than de-facto reasoning due to Al Quaeda ties and following the money? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/35 "2013-12-10T22:48:10Z")
That Malala girl wasn’t in the poll, and there was no “Other” option, so I didn’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/36 "2013-12-10T23:54:54Z")
BO and MC are out. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/37 "2013-12-11T05:10:27Z")
Marble Cake Also The Game ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/38 "2013-12-11T05:46:41Z")
I’m guessing Miley Cyrus, because physically unattractive as she is, in the immortal words of Frank Zappa: "With a tongue like a Cow, she can make you go ‘WOW!’ " ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/39 "2013-12-11T12:52:56Z")
[It’s the Pope.](http://poy.time.com/2013/12/11/person-of-the-year-pope-francis-the-peoples-pope/) ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921/40 "2013-12-11T12:56:05Z")
Good. That’s who I wanted it to be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-person-of-the-year/675921.md?page=3)