# Time to Boycott Massachusetts? Must Pierce & Garnett become "Los Celtics"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2010, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050 "2010-05-28T07:12:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/21 "2010-05-28T16:51:21Z")
Does DHS keep a registry of natural-born citizens? I guess that’s what’s confusing me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/22 "2010-05-28T16:52:55Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Does DHS keep a registry of natural-born citizens? I guess that’s what’s confusing me. I would hope so! If they get some random name to check out, against what database would they do so? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/23 "2010-05-28T16:55:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Not before negotiations at least. The article does not reveal what points were negotiated, and what parties yielded on what points. It could just as easily be pointed out that Republicans compromised their priniciples and caved to Democrats following negotiation. I’m surprised you didn’t know that is how sausage is made. Er… maybe. But quotes like this seem to suggest otherwise: > [@](#): > > Senator Frederick E. Berry, a Peabody Democrat, complained that one of the Republican sponsors acted like the “Patriots had just won the Super Bowl. … I am going to vote for it, but I don’t think we ought to rejoice.” > [@](#): > > Sen. Sonia Chang-Diaz, a Boston Democrat, accused Republicans of trying to score “cheap political points” in an election year. > [@](#): > > Earlier this week, Senate President Therese Murray, a Plymouth Democrat, had dismissed the Republican proposal as “smoke and mirrors.” > > After the vote, Murray said she was bowing to the will of the Senate, even though she didn’t agree with everything in the proposal. > > “There are parts of it that I think are unfortunate, but the members wanted it,” said Murray, who did not cast a vote. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/24 "2010-05-28T20:52:35Z")
It could still be that the Republicans were pushing for some more onerous measures, which the Democrats managed to negotiate out of the final bill. Without knowing what the bill said at the time of those quotes, it’s hard to know the context. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/25 "2010-05-28T21:45:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The OP links to a news story about the Massachusetts Senate passing a bill that targets illegal immigration; it: > > [ul] > [li]Bars the state from doing business with any company that breaks federal laws concerning the hiring of illegal immigrant [/li][li]Increases penalties for using fake ID documents[/li][li]Forbids the granting of in-state college tuition rates to illegal immigrants[/li][li]Requite the Massachusetts public health insurance program to verify legal residency before providing benefits[/li][li]Mandates priority for subsidized housing be given to legal residents [/li][/ul] I’m staunchly pro-immigration (open-borders variety), but within current social and legal context, there’s nothing I can really get worked up about here. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/26 "2010-05-28T22:11:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Except that “Democrats had resisted such a sweeping proposal, but spent last evening negotiating today’s measure, shortly after a new polled showed 84 percent of the liberal-leaning state’s voters supported tough immigration rules barring state services to illegal immigrants.” Fuck the Democrats, they listened to constituents!! The nerve. What is this country coming to? ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/27 "2010-05-28T23:29:06Z")
Just as a point of information, the Democrats in the Massachusetts Senate don’t need to compromise with the Republicans. There are 35 Democrats and 5 Republicans. Whatever Democrats were opposed to the bill, they caved to other Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/28 "2010-05-29T00:28:50Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Fuck the Democrats, they listened to constituents!! The nerve. What is this country coming to? Wait, which is it? They listened to constituents, or correlation is not causation? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/29 "2010-05-29T00:37:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > True. > > But the quote is not offered to suggest that there is a _reason_ Democrats caved on the bill… merely to prove that Democrats initially opposed the bill. I think what you really mean is that the Democrats opposed the initial version of this bill. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/30 "2010-05-29T00:48:17Z")
Let’s completely leave aside the fact that this is not even remotely comparable to the Arizona law, as can be easily ascertained by anyone whose brain cell has divided. This bill is not yet law, it is an state Senate amendment to the Massachusetts budget bill, and must be ironed out in conference. The state House defeated a similar amendment. Gov. Patrick has given no indication as to whether he will veto. He is on record as opposing certain parts of it. (And favoring certain parts of it.) The Democrats who “caved” appear to have done so on the illegal immigrants receiving state benefits (such as in-state tuition and health insurance) aspects of the bill. There seems to be whole-hearted support for the sanctions on employers of illegal immigrants. As a Democrat who is not happy with all aspects of the bill, it’s still a lot closer to what a state law on illegal immigrants should look like than is Arizona’s, and–were I a member of the Massachusetts legislature–I suspect I would have held my nose and voted for it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/31 "2010-05-29T01:07:12Z")
Boycott the state? I think the entire population of Puerto Rico should move to Massachusetts & confuse everyone. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/32 "2010-05-29T12:05:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The OP links to a news story about the Massachusetts Senate passing a bill that targets illegal immigration; it: > > [ul] > [li]Bars the state from doing business with any company that breaks federal laws concerning the hiring of illegal immigrant [/li][li]Increases penalties for using fake ID documents[/li][li]Forbids the granting of in-state college tuition rates to illegal immigrants[/li][li]Requite the Massachusetts public health insurance program to verify legal residency before providing benefits[/li][li]Mandates priority for subsidized housing be given to legal residents [/li][/ul] Why do I expect that, before the bill passes (if it does), there will be provisions to make it as difficult as possible to enforce. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/33 "2010-05-29T17:22:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In fairness to the OP, while his post is not a model of clarity, his post and title, taken together, lay out a reasonably deductible topic for debate, _viz_: > ] Not without clicking on a link, it doesn’t. I’m with **Fear Itself** , if you can be bothered to at least do a little cut & paste, then don’t both opening a thread. **Marley** was correct. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/34 "2010-05-29T17:48:19Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Why do I expect that, before the bill passes (if it does), there will be provisions to make it as difficult as possible to enforce. I wouldn’t be at all surprised. I do have a problem with this: [quote=“Bricker, post:4, topic:541050”] [li]Requite the Massachusetts public health insurance program to verify legal residency before providing benefits[/li][/QUOTE] There should at the least be an exception for the vaccination against and treatment of infectious diseases; it does no one good to have people with dangerous diseases avoiding treatment and remaining infectious to others. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/35 "2010-05-29T17:54:15Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Fuck the Democrats, they listened to constituents!! The nerve. What is this country coming to? Or, they were originally ridiculously out of touch and would have continued being so if not forced by near-unanimous public opinion. Also as **Bricker** says, you’re trying to have it both ways. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/36 "2010-05-29T18:00:38Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > As you so frequently like to remind others, correlation does not equal causation. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It could just as easily be pointed out that Republicans compromised their priniciples and caved to Democrats following negotiation. I’m surprised you didn’t know that is how sausage is made. > [@Chronos](#): > > It could still be that the Republicans were pushing for some more onerous measures, which the Democrats managed to negotiate out of the final bill. Without knowing what the bill said at the time of those quotes, it’s hard to know the context. > [@DanBlather](#): > > Fuck the Democrats, they listened to constituents!! The nerve. What is this country coming to? > [@waterj2](#): > > Just as a point of information, the Democrats in the Massachusetts Senate don’t need to compromise with the Republicans. There are 35 Democrats and 5 Republicans. Whatever Democrats were opposed to the bill, they caved to other Democrats. Several ideas were presented regarding the change in support, none of which are mutually exclusive. Some or all of them could be true at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/37 "2010-05-30T00:51:31Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I don’t think you should boycott MA because I live here. > > Do you care to offer any argument as to why we should boycott MA …? Because Boston City Council voted to boycott Arizona? Seems like the MA thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/38 "2010-05-30T02:19:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Because Boston City Council voted to boycott Arizona? Seems like the MA thing to do. Well at least you unlike the OP are offering an argument. Not a good one but it is miles ahead of his. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/39 "2010-05-31T02:51:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The OP links to a news story about the Massachusetts Senate passing a bill that targets illegal immigration; it: > > [ul] > [li]Bars the state from doing business with any company that breaks federal laws concerning the hiring of illegal immigrant [/li][li]Increases penalties for using fake ID documents[/li][li]Forbids the granting of in-state college tuition rates to illegal immigrants[/li][li]Requite the Massachusetts public health insurance program to verify legal residency before providing benefits[/li][li]Mandates priority for subsidized housing be given to legal residents [/li][/ul] Wow! It is exactly like the Arizona law. Except for the first 5 bullet points listed above. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050/40 "2010-06-03T15:06:42Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Wow! It is exactly like the Arizona law. Except for the first 5 bullet points listed above. Just guessing, but: you haven’t actually read the Arizona law, have you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-boycott-massachusetts-must-pierce-garnett-become-los-celtics/541050.md?page=3)