# time to change name on Middle-east? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 24, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547 "2007-02-24T20:36:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/1 "2007-02-24T20:36:58Z")
this region lays in Western Asia and not in the middle. India lays in the middle let’s chage it to Western Asia ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/2 "2007-02-24T20:42:07Z")
Okey dokey. Are you planning to call up all the news agencies and dictionary publishers to inform them of this momentous insight? ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/3 "2007-02-24T21:00:07Z")
Isn’t it true that some of the Northeastern African region is included in the generic Middle East designation? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/4 "2007-02-24T21:12:10Z")
I’d like to change North America to South Canada while we’re at it. How is this GQ? ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/5 "2007-02-24T21:14:50Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] this region lays in Western Asia and not in the middle. India lays in the middle let’s chage it to Western Asia [/QUOTE] It’s currently the Middle- **east** , not Middle- **asia**. So, why should we change the name? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/6 "2007-02-24T21:15:06Z")
[QUOTE=Zeldar] Isn’t it true that some of the Northeastern African region is included in the generic Middle East designation? [/QUOTE] Yep, few people would exclude Egypt from the definition, not least because of its integral role in the politics of the region. And to the OP - the term Central Asia is already in common use, referring to the region from the Caucasus across to Mongolia, perhaps taking in parts of Pakistan and India but certainly not covering the whole of the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/7 "2007-02-24T21:26:29Z")
While we’re on the general subject, does anybody have any official borders for Europe, Asia and Africa? I know about the Urals as a major demarcation between Europe and Asia, but they run out as you head south and there’s still a lot of ground left to be covered. And what’s the official border between Africa and Asia? Seems to me everything in that region is pretty arbitrary. Same applies to North and South America. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/8 "2007-02-24T21:26:38Z")
Before this gets booted out of GQ, I’ve run into the terms middle east and far east before, but never the near east. Has that been used, and if so, what did it describe? ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/9 "2007-02-24T21:30:20Z")
[QUOTE=ultrafilter] Before this gets booted out of GQ, I’ve run into the terms middle east and far east before, but never the near east. Has that been used, and if so, what did it describe? [/QUOTE] I think the term dates back to the “Middle Ages” – another fuzzy term. There’s also The Levant for part of that region. At times I’ve seen Near East refer to parts of Eastern Europe, like the Balkan states and into Turkey. You pretty much have to pick a source for the period of time being discussed. Fuzzy area, for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/10 "2007-02-24T21:46:18Z")
[QUOTE=ultrafilter] Before this gets booted out of GQ, I’ve run into the terms middle east and far east before, but never the near east. Has that been used, and if so, what did it describe? [/QUOTE] Oooh, look. A factual question in GQ! What a novelty! Anyway, from [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East): > [@](#): > > The Near East is a term commonly used by archaeologists, geographers and historians, less commonly by journalists and commentators, to refer to the region encompassing Anatolia (modern Turkey), the Levant (modern Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon), Armenia, and Mesopotamia (Iraq and eastern Syria). The alternative term Middle East — preferred in some political and economic contexts — is not used by Near Eastern archaeologists and historians. An alternative non-Eurocentric designation in recent years has been ‘Southwest Asia’, although this term has yet to achieve widespread use. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/11 "2007-02-24T22:30:57Z")
Moved to Middle PSIMS. - **xash** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/12 "2007-02-25T01:05:47Z")
[QUOTE=Zeldar] While we’re on the general subject, does anybody have any official borders for Europe, Asia and Africa? I know about the Urals as a major demarcation between Europe and Asia, but they run out as you head south and there’s still a lot of ground left to be covered. And what’s the official border between Africa and Asia? Seems to me everything in that region is pretty arbitrary. Same applies to North and South America. [/QUOTE] It is arbitrary. We’re not talking about countries, with set borders. These are regions, and until a region becomes independent and sets borders, it’s all in a state of flux. And it doesn’t matter where a country is. Yes, there are organizations that are set up upon continental lines (e.g., Organization of American States), but those are arbitrary; if a country from Asia wanted to join the OAS, then it’s up to the OAS to accept them, and if they felt China had something to bring to the organization, then they’d let them in. Continents are geographical, but not political designations, and the definition is one of convenience, not consistency. ---
**Author:** ![According\_to\_Pliny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@According\_to\_Pliny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/According_to_Pliny)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/13 "2007-02-25T01:58:55Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] let’s chage it to Western Asia [/QUOTE] Makes sense to me. I used to prefer Near East, but some people thought that was old fashioned. I guess I learned it from old professors. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/14 "2007-02-25T07:32:21Z")
In _Culture of Complaint_, Australian Robert Hughes wrote about his father calling China and Japan the “Far East” rather than the “Near North”. I’d suggest calling the region “Islamica”. I think that would piss off just about everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/15 "2007-02-25T15:06:35Z")
[QUOTE=Zeldar] And what’s the official border between Africa and Asia? [/QUOTE] That would be the border between Israel (or Palestine, depending on your POV) and Egypt. A few miles east of the Suez. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/16 "2007-02-25T15:18:03Z")
In pursuit of some “official” or at least “semi-official” definition of the boundaries of the continents, I found this [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent) which tends to support the idea that except for Antarctica and Australia, the continents’ demarcations from each other are predominantly arbitrary, at least from a geological standpoint. That was what I had hoped to get some answers on in my earlier post in this thread. If anyone has an authoritative refutation of the Wiki article, please post a link to it. ---
**Author:** ![According\_to\_Pliny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@According\_to\_Pliny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/According_to_Pliny)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/17 "2007-02-25T15:51:29Z")
[QUOTE=Zeldar] In pursuit of some “official” or at least “semi-official” definition of the boundaries of the continents, I found this [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent) which tends to support the idea that except for Antarctica and Australia, the continents’ demarcations from each other are predominantly arbitrary, at least from a geological standpoint. That was what I had hoped to get some answers on in my earlier post in this thread. If anyone has an authoritative refutation of the Viki article, please post a link to it. [/QUOTE] I thought the Urals, like the Himalayas, were formed by the collision of tectonic plates. That Asia, Europe, and India rest on separate plates. Where odd bits like Arabia and Turkey fit into this is something that could be looked up. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/18 "2007-02-25T16:01:37Z")
Please note that in my original post #16 , it reads: “If anyone has an authoritative refutation of the Wiki article, please post a link to it.” But in **According to Pliny** ’s quote of it, it reads: “If anyone has an authoritative refutation of the Viki article, please post a link to it.” How did “Wiki” become “Viki”? Magic? Please note that my post #16 has not been edited. I must assume that the quoted text was modified (either deliberately or not) in the quoting process. Anybody notice things like this elsewhere? Not a big deal, just weird. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-change-name-on-middle-east/393547/19 "2007-02-26T01:41:01Z")
Yeah, and Indiana is in the “U.S. midwest” even though we’re sometimes in the eastern timezone. Like now.