# Time to officially Pit the Sanford Police Dept and their cover-up. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 29, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108 "2012-03-29T01:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/341 "2012-04-10T21:53:31Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Geez, yog, seems as if you want GZ to burn whether he’s guilty of anything or not. Way to revel in your ignorance. Actually he said Zimmerman’s “gulily.” _Now_ who’s ignorant, smart guy? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/342 "2012-04-10T21:56:57Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Can’t even get on it, it needs more bandwidth! > > Also, breaking news, GZ’s lawyers [have quit as his counsel, citing inability to reach him](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-attorney-hold-press-conference-4-30pm-203437097.html). > > One thing that does make me glad a little bit, I’m watching the news conference right now, and the lawyers have said that GZ wants to talk to the prosecutors and tell them his version. Hopefully that’ll trip him up and blow holes in his story Why do you want him to be guilty? Actually, I’ll ask something I’ve asked before, and not got an answer to. Why does anyone _want_ Zimmerman to be guilty of this crime, when his innocence would mean that there was no killing of an innocent person? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/343 "2012-04-10T22:13:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Why does anyone want Zimmerman to be guilty of this crime, when his innocence would mean that there was no killing of an innocent person? Presumably because whatever the verdict, they will know that Zimmerman is responsible for the death of an unarmed teenager. He admitted as such. In other countries, he’d be held culpable for murder on those grounds alone. If found guilty though, it may discourage others from carrying weapons or following people they find suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/344 "2012-04-10T22:23:13Z")
You may be right. Sadly, I live in such a country, but I’d rather there be much stronger self defence laws here. But then, I don’t go around punching people and smashing their heads against the flaw for having the temerity to talk to me. I’m quite happy to live somewhere guns are illegal, and hence rare, but you can be sure that if I lived somewhere they were prevalent I’d own one. I can see discouraging people from following suspicious characters - it might, to pick a hypothetical, get one punched in the face and smashed into the floor - but I don’t see why it’s a good idea to discourage people from being able to legally defend themselves. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/345 "2012-04-11T03:32:46Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Why do you want him to be guilty? Who says I want him to be guilty? I think he is, that’s why I feel the way I do ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/346 "2012-04-11T11:13:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …But it’s obviously also possible to point out that perhaps Zimmerman’s … eagerness… to initiate this encounter can be a clue to deciding which participant kicked the confrontation into an illegal use of force first. TA DA!! We have a winner. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/347 "2012-04-11T13:03:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Gotcha!! > > Well, that’s kind of a key point. Obviously it’s possible to bring a gun to an encounter and still legitimately use it in self-defense. > > But it’s obviously also possible to point out that perhaps Zimmerman’s … eagerness… to initiate this encounter can be a clue to deciding which participant kicked the confrontation into an illegal use of force first. > [@Batfish](#): > > TA DA!! We have a winner. Yes. But please remember that “perhaps a clue” does not equate to “probable cause.” ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/348 "2012-04-11T14:25:07Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Why do you want him to be guilty? > > Actually, I’ll ask something I’ve asked before, and not got an answer to. Why does anyone _want_ Zimmerman to be guilty of this crime, when his innocence would mean that there was no killing of an innocent person? That’s a very interesting way to frame it. I wish that Z hadn’t killed M. Given that he has, in a situation he precipitated I believe he’s commuted a crime. I want him found guilty of his wrong doing. Or at least the “wrong headedness” of the way he behaved. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/349 "2012-04-11T15:13:42Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Hopefully that’ll trip him up and blow holes in his story So you are confident that Zimmerman’s story is a lie? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/350 "2012-04-11T15:17:57Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Presumably because whatever the verdict, they will know that Zimmerman is responsible for the death of an unarmed teenager. So you believe that even if Zimmerman’s story is 100% true, he should go to prison? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/351 "2012-04-11T15:19:20Z")
So you believe if Zimmerman’s story is complete bullshit, we should throw a parade in his honor? See, I can do it too. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/352 "2012-04-11T15:20:36Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > So you believe if Zimmerman’s story is complete bullshit, we should throw a parade in his honor? No I don’t. ETA: Did I say anything to suggest that? > [@](#): > > See, I can do it too. Do what? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/353 "2012-04-11T16:10:43Z")
Bat big brown innocent eyes and pretend you’re “just asking a question”. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/354 "2012-04-11T16:17:21Z")
Things get worse, not better. [http://www.news4jax.com/news/Gainesville-man-beaten-after-men-shout-Trayvon/-/475880/10396944/-/wk1c9z/-/](http://www.news4jax.com/news/Gainesville-man-beaten-after-men-shout-Trayvon/-/475880/10396944/-/wk1c9z/-/) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/355 "2012-04-11T16:17:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Bat big brown innocent eyes and pretend you’re “just asking a question”. Brown eyes or not, asking questions is often a great way to zero in on the weaknesses in somebody’s argument. Of course, some people prefer to simply attack motivations. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/356 "2012-04-11T16:53:33Z")
Well, your motivations stink too. Same stink. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/357 "2012-04-11T16:54:38Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Brown eyes or not, asking questions is often a great way to zero in on the weaknesses in somebody’s argument. Especially when you build their argument for them out of straw. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/358 "2012-04-11T19:02:11Z")
Update: Some lawyer person is going to bring charges against GZ. [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201\_162-57412535/zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-case/](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57412535/zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-case/) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/359 "2012-04-11T20:11:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, your motivations stink too. Same stink. Lol, reminds me of the old saying that a “racist” is a conservative who is winning an argument against a liberal. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/360 "2012-04-11T20:16:26Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Especially when you build their argument for them out of straw. Not really, when you asked me your question about a parade for Zimmerman a few posts back, I simply answered “no,” and asked you where I had said anything to suggest it. Of course you were unable to answer. By contrast, **gamerununknown** said the following: > [@](#): > > Presumably because whatever the verdict, they will know that Zimmerman is responsible for the death of an unarmed teenager. He admitted as such. In other countries, he’d be held culpable for murder on those grounds alone. If found guilty though, it may discourage others from carrying weapons or following people they find suspicious. It’s reasonable to interpret this as him saying that all that matters is that an armed adult shot and killed an unarmed teenager whom he had previously followed. That in such a situation, the shooter should go to jail. It’s reasonable to interpret this as saying Zimmerman’s claims of being threatened and attacked are irrelevant. In short, I’m not strawmanning **gamerununknown** in the least. I am asking him if he really is saying what he seems to be saying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=19)