# Time to officially Pit the Sanford Police Dept and their cover-up. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 29, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108 "2012-03-29T01:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/501 "2012-05-19T09:58:56Z")
> [@Linguini](#): > > Day after day, week after week the liberals have spouted their nonsense and now the facts prove that Martin attacked Zimmerman and paid a hefty price for it. I wouldn’t go that far, but it seems clear that anyone who was (or is) confident that Zimmerman is a murderer (or was uninjured) was flat out wrong in his confidence. > [@](#): > > Will any of you have the maturity to admit you jumped to an emotional conclusion and were wrong? Of course not, since anyone with that level of maturity would not have rushed to judgment in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/502 "2012-05-19T11:11:27Z")
I wouldn’t classify being killed as paying a hefty price, especially since the facts as revealed in this thread do not explicitly prove that “Martin attacked Zimmerman”. At minimum, they do not demonstrate that Martin initiated the fight against Zimmerman, nor that he attacked Zimmerman without provocation. I’d classify what happened to Martin as being killed. Whether he was murdered or not is up to the courts to decide. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/503 "2012-05-19T11:20:21Z")
[http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/t/story?id=16371852](http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/t/story?id=16371852) From a legal point of view, the evidence described in this article seems to indicate that the prosecution will have a tough time, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/504 "2012-05-19T12:16:26Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > There was no beat down of Zimmerman. > > . . . > > I hope all these guys in the Sanford PD go down. I’m sure they are lawering-up as I type this. Lol, are you still sure? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/505 "2012-05-19T13:48:26Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, are you still sure? Quick question: What do you think typing \*lol \*conveys? I mean, you obviously aren’t \*actually \*laughing aloud. Do you think it makes you look like an overlord dismissing the foolish and petty machinations of those beneath you? Because it’s not doing that. Do you think it gives you the air of someone who is sitting on a motorcycle, racing down a country road and posting on his phone. A free spirit that will with no effort fling off a post that others will marvel at? Not doing that either. Just trying to get a rise out of people? To hurt them like they hurt you when they demolish your stances over and over again? I’m not sure how successful that is. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/506 "2012-05-19T14:08:05Z")
The scary thing is, he probably is cackling like a maniac as he types his incisive posts that’ll take down them liberals once and for all. There’s probably drool involved, with some Cheetos crumbs in it. And just for the record, I’m one of those who saw the Zimmerman photos and went “Whoa, I may have to rethink my assumptions on this”. I had jumped to condemn him, not because I’m a leftie but because I have a Libertarian’s innate distrust of authority. Still plenty to condemn him about, though, morally if not legally. ---
**Author:** ![Linguini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ab097/32.png) [@Linguini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linguini)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/507 "2012-05-19T14:20:01Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Do the facts show that? > > I haven’t been following very closely. Can you show me where the information about who started the altercation is? Pretty simple - the guy that was attacked did not start the altercation. You know, the only guy with injuries. Pretty hard for Martin to have attacked Zimmerman AFTER he was shot. Dead men don’t punch. Figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/508 "2012-05-19T14:39:03Z")
> [@Linguini](#): > > Pretty simple - the guy that was attacked did not start the altercation. You know, the only guy with injuries. Pretty hard for Martin to have attacked Zimmerman AFTER he was shot. Dead men don’t punch. Figure it out. I asked you for evidence, not defective reasoning. What if Zimmerman asked Martin to stop and Martin ignored him. Then Zimmerman put a hand on Martin’s shoulder to turn him around and get him to face him? What if Zimmerman grabbed the back of Martin’s hoodie? What if Zimmerman had his hand on his gun, displaying it for Martin to see? There are a lot of possibilities, and just because you’re\* unable to imagine\* them hardly suggests that the facts are known. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/509 "2012-05-19T15:18:53Z")
> [@Linguini](#): > > Pretty simple - the guy that was attacked did not start the altercation. You know, the only guy with injuries. Pretty hard for Martin to have attacked Zimmerman AFTER he was shot. Dead men don’t punch. Figure it out. You may want to rethink your premise, if not your conclusion. [http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-201\_162-10012334.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody](http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-201_162-10012334.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody) ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/510 "2012-05-19T18:12:40Z")
So at this point we’ve seen new evidence that a fight did, in fact, occur. New evidence that Zimmerman was the one who started the fight has also come out, in the form of the girlfriend’s cell phone testimony. The pro-Zimmerman forces are crying triumphantly that this proves the shooting was justified. So, in their view, you can see a negro in your neighborhood armed with a dangerous quantity of Skittles, announce to the 911 dispatcher that he’s not getting away this time, stalk him as he makes several good-faith attempts to simply evade you instead of confronting you, finally catch up to him and threaten him with your gun for the crime of being black in your all-white enclave, and if he makes any attempt to protect his own life from your budding racist killing spree…just stand your ground and kill the thug! Self-defense! He was coming right at me with his blackness! Glad to know that I was, in fact, right all along about Zimmerman’s mindset and about the mindset of those who support him. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/511 "2012-05-19T18:16:40Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > The pro-Zimmerman forces are crying triumphantly that this proves the shooting was justified. So, in their view, you can see a negro in your neighborhood armed with a dangerous quantity of Skittles, announce to the 911 dispatcher that he’s not getting away this time, stalk him as he makes several good-faith attempts to simply evade you instead of confronting you, finally catch up to him and threaten him with your gun for the crime of being black in your all-white enclave, and if he makes any attempt to protect his own life from your budding racist killing spree…just stand your ground and kill the thug! Self-defense! He was coming right at me with his blackness! Lol, you forgot the part about the police department helping Zimmerman to fake some injuries. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/512 "2012-05-19T18:25:26Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, you forgot the part about the police department helping Zimmerman to fake some injuries. Let’s just grant that every photo and description of Zimmerman’s injuries is 100% real. That STILL makes him guilty by any sane standard, because he stalked and started a confrontation with a teenager for no reason and the teenager ended up dead. If the laws of Florida allow you to claim self-defense by escalating a fight YOU STARTED to lethal force, then they are wrong. I know you don’t get this because you just like seeing dead black people, but that’s the reality–_the evidence we have proves Zimmerman’s guilt regardless of any information about his injuries._ ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/513 "2012-05-19T18:34:18Z")
There’s no evidence that Zimmerman started the _physical_ confrontation, which is what matters, and plenty that Martin did. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/514 "2012-05-19T18:44:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There’s no evidence that Zimmerman started the _physical_ confrontation, which is what matters, and plenty that Martin did. What is that evidence again? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/515 "2012-05-19T18:48:07Z")
Any physical confrontation would be predicated on a physical presence. We know why Martin was there, he was walking home from the 7-11. Martin did not intrude himself upon Zimmerman, unless you have some evidence otherwise? He was simply minding his own business. Zimmerman followed Martin. He was armed. He had been advised not to interfere with Martin. as the police were fully capable of responding to whatever threat he may have posed. Nothing we have heard suggests that Martin in any way initiated the situation. We may then reasonably conclude that the physical confrontation between the two was entirely a result of Zimmerman’s actions. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/516 "2012-05-19T19:05:08Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > What is that evidence again? The fact that Zimmerman was injured, and Martin wasn’t, and Zimmerman’s claim that it happened that way. It’s not proof, but Zimmerman doesn’t need to prove his innocence. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/517 "2012-05-19T19:07:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The fact that Zimmerman was injured, and Martin wasn’t, and Zimmerman’s claim that it happened that way. > > It’s not proof, but Zimmerman doesn’t need to prove his innocence. Zimmerman didn’t need to cold cock Martin to start a fight. He could have grabbed him to stop him walking or threatened him with his gun. I don’t know what happened, of course, but that certainly seems just as likely that Martin out of nowhere started punching Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/518 "2012-05-19T19:21:40Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Let’s just grant that every photo and description of Zimmerman’s injuries is 100% real. That STILL makes him guilty by any sane standard, because he stalked and started a confrontation with a teenager for no reason and the teenager ended up dead. If the laws of Florida allow you to claim self-defense by escalating a fight YOU STARTED to lethal force, then they are wrong. I know you don’t get this because you just like seeing dead black people, but that’s the reality–_the evidence we have proves Zimmerman’s guilt regardless of any information about his injuries._ What do you mean by “stalk”? Do you simply mean “follow” or something else? And where’s your proof that Zimmerman started the violence with Martin? And are you saying that even if everything Zimmerman says is completely true, he’s still guilty? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/519 "2012-05-19T19:24:53Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > What do you mean by “stalk”? Do you simply mean “follow” or something else? > > And where’s your proof that Zimmerman started the violence with Martin? > > And are you saying that even if everything Zimmerman says is completely true, he’s still guilty? You forgot the _lol_. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/520 "2012-05-19T19:33:45Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You forgot the _lol_. lol. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=27)