# Time to officially Pit the Sanford Police Dept and their cover-up. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 29, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108 "2012-03-29T01:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/561 "2012-05-21T17:13:41Z")
Oh, good, it wasn’t the Skittles. What a relief! It was his ambulatory velocity. Of course, yes, that makes all the sense in the world. Sure glad to hear it wasn’t because he was black, or anything like that. Oh, dear. You’re not kidding, are you? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/562 "2012-05-21T17:16:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure. > > This behavior, if observed by a police officer, would have allowed the police officer to approach Martin and ask him what his business in the neighborhood was. > > Of course… this behavior, if observed by a certified massage therapist, would also have allowed the therapist to approach Martin and ask him what his business in the neighborhood was. > > In other words, no legal justification is needed for any person to approach any other person in a public setting and ask them what they’re doing. And you were doing so well, too, for a moment. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/563 "2012-05-21T17:17:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And you were doing so well, too, for a moment. I can never tell with you. Does that mean you disagree with my factual statement or you just don’t like the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/564 "2012-05-21T17:17:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Sure glad to hear it wasn’t because he was black, or anything like that. Do you have any reason whatsoever to suspect that it _was_ because he was black? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/565 "2012-05-21T17:20:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, good, it wasn’t the Skittles. What a relief! It was his ambulatory velocity. Of course, yes, that makes all the sense in the world. Sure glad to hear it wasn’t because he was black, or anything like that. > > Oh, dear. You’re not kidding, are you? Listening to the doctored NBC version of the 911 call, it sure seemed like the motivation for the call was that Martin was black. Since we now know he brought that up only in response to a direct question from the dispatcher about what race the man was that Zimmerman was calling about, I’m not sure what you’d rely upon to conclude that race was a factor. And I doubt you’ll be able to make a direct, succinct, clear statement about that either. Undoubtedly you’ll have some faux-sarcastic comment to attempt to hide this lack, though. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/566 "2012-05-21T17:22:25Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Do you have any reason whatsoever to suspect that it _was_ because he was black? Try, elucidator. Just fill in the blank. A simple, declarative sentence: “I believe Zimmerman was suspicious of Martin based on Martin’s race because \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/567 "2012-05-21T17:26:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In other words, no legal justification is needed for any person to approach any other person in a public setting and ask them what they’re doing. Yes, but the person being asked that question is also perfectly within their legal right to say “go get fucked asshole, I don’t have to tell you shit”? Is that correct? Just making sure I understand the issue. Would that type of response qualify as being an aggressor in a fight that followed, or would it still be required to show who got physical first? I don’t chime in much, but have read this thread. I appreciate Bricker’s legal contributions to it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/568 "2012-05-21T17:26:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Try, elucidator. > > Just fill in the blank. A simple, declarative sentence: “I believe Zimmerman was suspicious of Martin based on Martin’s race because \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” I’ll play: The other people he called about in the past were all black. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/569 "2012-05-21T17:30:05Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’ll play: The other people he called about in the past were all black. Do you know this? If it’s true, it strongly suggests profiling, but I’ve not heard it before now. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/570 "2012-05-21T17:33:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He already had reported the “suspicious person” to the police. They were on their way. I’m not sure what your point is here. Are you disputing that Zimmerman’s intention in attempting to follow Martin was to be able to report him to the police? If so, what do you think Zimmerman’s intentions were and why do you think so? > [@](#): > > And while we are about the subject of ambiguous phrasing, how exactly was young Mr. Martin in any way “suspicious”? Was it the Skittles? Probably you would have to ask Zimmerman that question. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/571 "2012-05-21T17:35:25Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’ll play: The other people he called about in the past were all black. Demonstrably wrong. He also called about whites and hispanics. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/572 "2012-05-21T17:43:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Demonstrably wrong. He also called about whites and hispanics. I have no detailed information on this, but Time said: > [@](#): > > In the months before the Feb. 26 shooting, George Zimmerman called the police several times to report suspicious persons. In all of these calls, he identified the subject as a black male. The calls were made on August 3, 4, and 6, 2011; October 6, 2011; and Feb 12, 2012. > > Read more: [New Trayvon Martin Evidence: 10 Things You Should Know | TIME.com](http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/05/18/new-trayvon-martin-evidence-10-things-you-should-know/#ixzz1vWjWh3Dr) You might be right, but until I see a reputable cite, I’ll take Time’s word over yours. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/573 "2012-05-21T17:47:06Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I have no detailed information on this, but Time said: > > You might be right, but until I see a reputable cite, I’ll take Time’s word over yours. Will teach you to believe Time without verifying: > **[46 Calls](https://www.thedailybeast.com/46-calls/)** > > George Zimmerman’s 911 call log in the years before he shot Trayvon Martin. Lots of calls in which race of people is not mentioned. And this one: 1. June 24, 2007 – 12:48 a.m. Type: TEL Subject: Suspicious activity Report: “By the pool”, two Hispanic males and one white male with “slim jim” ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/574 "2012-05-21T17:49:21Z")
So Zimmerman thought that Martin was looking to burglarize a house at 7PM on a Sunday? To borrow an expression: lol. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/575 "2012-05-21T17:55:35Z")
[This article](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/did-trayvon-shooter-abuse-911.html) has quite a bit of detail about Zimmerman’s calls to the police, and suggests that while the most recent 6 calls were about black males, the previous 40 were more varied. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/576 "2012-05-21T17:55:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Will teach you to believe Time without verifying: > > [46 Calls](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html) > > Lots of calls in which race of people is not mentioned. And this one: > > 1. June 24, 2007 – 12:48 a.m. > Type: TEL > Subject: Suspicious activity > Report: “By the pool”, two Hispanic males and one white male with “slim jim” Wow, one item, from five years ago. The Time article only makes claim to the “months before”. I’ll stipulate that five years earlier he narced on some Hispanics and a blanko nino. Tell me Terr, are you stupid, or just a suppurating asshole? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/577 "2012-05-21T17:56:45Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > [This article](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/did-trayvon-shooter-abuse-911.html) has quite a bit of detail about Zimmerman’s calls to the police, and suggests that while the most recent 6 calls were about black males, the previous 40 were more varied. Well, it’s after he started watching The Wire. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/578 "2012-05-21T17:58:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Try, elucidator. > > Just fill in the blank. A simple, declarative sentence: “I believe Zimmerman was suspicious of Martin based on Martin’s race because \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” Lol, that’s like asking Count Dracula to go for an afternoon hike in the Mojave Desert. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/579 "2012-05-21T18:03:40Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’ll play: The other people he called about in the past were all black. BZZZT. [Not a true claim](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html). Here’s a link to the subject matter of the 44 prior police assistance calls from Zimmerman. Only five identify black persons as the subjects or involved ini any way in the calls. But thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts. What do we have for our contestants, Johnny? ```auto 8/12/2004 suspicious male in pickup truck 8/12/2004 repeats cal 1 8/20/2004 open garage door 10/20/2004 drunk pedestrian 3/17/2005 pot hole 4/27/2005 open garage door 9/21/2005 stray dog 9/23/2005 suspicious person at sister's door 11/4/2006 speeding car 6/24/2007 two Hispanic makes, one white male witrh slim jim 10/14/2007 vandalism 11/25/2007 while male 11/25/2007 Ex-roommate disturbance 1/5/2009 Alarm going off 3/12/2009 out of town patrol request 5/4/2009 suspicious car 6/10/2009 Alarm going off 6/16/2009 Pool area distrubance 8/21/2009 Landlord tenant conflict 8/26/2009 speeding car 9/7/2009 pot hole 9/22/2009 reckless speed bike 10/23/2009 aggressive animals 11/21/2009 unclear 11/2/2009 reckless driver 1/1/2010 reckless driver 1/12/2010 Open garage door 2/27/2010 House with lots of suspicious activity 4/27/2010 While car blocking road 6/12/2010 Disturbing party 6/26/2010 Loud party, guests blocking street 10/2/2010 female disturbing peace 11/8/2010 trash in roadway 11/26/2010 Alarm going off 3/18/2011 Pit bull 4/22/2011 Black male juvenile 5/27/2011 Alarm going off 8/3/2011 Black male 8/6/2011 Black males 9/23/2011 Open garage door 10/1/2011 Black males 12/10/2011 Worker thought he was going to getr paid 1/29/2012 Children running and playing in the street 2/2/2012 Black male ``` ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/580 "2012-05-21T18:07:02Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Well, it’s after he started watching The Wire. You know, you could just say, “OK, my mistake.” I’ve done it plenty of times. It doesn’t hurt much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=30)