# Time to officially Pit the Sanford Police Dept and their cover-up. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 29, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108 "2012-03-29T01:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/621 "2012-05-22T07:20:09Z")
Silly me! I thought he had such permission, something about his father’s girlfriend. A resident of said gated community. Not true? Boy, is my face red! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/622 "2012-05-22T07:23:40Z")
Yes, he did. Perhaps if he’d mentioned that to Zimmerman instead of, say, punching him in the face and slamming his head against the ground, there wouldn’t have been a problem. That Zimmerman may have been mistaken in his suspicions doesn’t mean that they were unreasonable. Not that your posting style makes it obvious you know what “reasonable” means. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/623 "2012-05-22T07:24:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The kid is fucking dead. At seventeen. For attacking and beating up someone who had a gun. I would instruct a young black man not to attack people and beat them up. What evidence do you have for that besides the killers statement? Afterall - it was the killer that got out of his truck and chased the dead guy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/624 "2012-05-22T07:39:11Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, he did. Perhaps if he’d mentioned that to Zimmerman … Your sources are amazing! Can you share with the rest of us how you know he didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/625 "2012-05-22T07:46:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Your sources are amazing! Can you share with the rest of us how you know he didn’t? Martin’s girlfriend was on the phone to him at the beginning of the conversation between Zimmerman and Martin, and reports Zimmerman asking that, and Martin not answering. She also claims that at that point, she heard one of them push the other. So, either Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing, and without waiting for an answer attacked him, or Martin attacked Zimmerman rather than answer. So no, he didn’t tell him that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/626 "2012-05-22T07:59:54Z")
Accordiing to the girlfriend, he asked “What are you doing around here?” In your mind, that’s the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/627 "2012-05-22T08:02:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Accordiing to the girlfriend, he asked “What are you doing around here?” In your mind, that’s the same thing? Yes, it is. Its a question he was quite entitled to ask, and whilst he wasn’t entitled to an answer, the police would have been when they arrived. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/628 "2012-05-22T08:07:54Z")
Indeed, that’s true! Because they are the police. And he isn’t. The police. Did they ask for his assistance, by any chance? Why no, no they didn’t, did they? Rather the opposite, wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/629 "2012-05-22T08:13:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Indeed, that’s true! Because they are the police. And he isn’t. The police. Did they ask for his assistance, by any chance? Why no, no they didn’t, did they? Rather the opposite, wouldn’t you say? Not the opposite, no. A telephone operator stated that they did not need him to follow Martin. Not that he shouldn’t, or mustn’t, or even that they would prefer him not to. There is no reason for Zimmerman not to follow Martin and ask him what he’s doing there, apart from the obvious one that approaching suspicious people can be risky. As it indeed proved to be, judging by the state of Zimmerman’s face and head after the encounter. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/630 "2012-05-22T08:54:29Z")
Why do you refer to a dispatcher as a “telephone operator”? Are you hoping to insinuate that the person Zimmerman was talking to had no authority? At any rate, the phrase in question is here: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/zj7qEcD8R-8/hqdefault.jpg "George Zimmerman 911 Call To Stanford Police Department") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj7qEcD8R-8) at the 2:28 mark. The tone is clearly admonishment: “Are you following him? OK, we don’t need you to do that”. And then a whole long part with the dispatcher trying to get Zimmermans location so as to meet the police who are on their way. And Zimmerman appears to be cooperative, he’s at such and such a place, he will be there to meet them, and the conversation ends. And then, of course, Zimmerman proceeds to follow Martin. Or actually, goes looking for him. (I had no idea that last part of the conversation was so long. I got the distinct impression that the dispatcher was trying to get Zimmerman to commit to staying where he was until the police got there. YMMV.) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/631 "2012-05-22T09:07:41Z")
I’ll quite happily state clearly that the person Zimmerman was talking to had no authority over him. No matter how hard you try to twist things, there’s nothing wrong with Zimmerman’s actions up to and including the point where he asked Martin what he was doing. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/632 "2012-05-22T09:39:39Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Not the opposite, no. A telephone operator stated that they did not need him to follow Martin. Not that he shouldn’t, or mustn’t, or even that they would prefer him not to. > > There is no reason for Zimmerman not to follow Martin and ask him what he’s doing there, apart from the obvious one that approaching suspicious people can be risky. As it indeed proved to be, judging by the state of Zimmerman’s face and head after the encounter. Or the equally obvious that following someone down a back alley between houses is at the least scary (for the other guy) and can be seen as quite threatening, particularly when you specifically get out of your truck to do so. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/633 "2012-05-22T13:24:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, he did. Perhaps if he’d mentioned that to Zimmerman instead of, say, punching him in the face and slamming his head against the ground, there wouldn’t have been a problem. > > That Zimmerman may have been mistaken in his suspicions doesn’t mean that they were unreasonable. Not that your posting style makes it obvious you know what “reasonable” means. Uh Martin asked Zimmerman a question first. Perhaps if Zimmerman had stated he’s with NW and he’s already called the police because he thinks Martin’s up to no good, Trayvon might still be alive. Plus fuck that Frank Taaffe shit. “If Trayvon had been truthful…” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/634 "2012-05-22T13:28:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why do you refer to a dispatcher as a “telephone operator”? Are you hoping to insinuate that the person Zimmerman was talking to had no authority? I’ll do more than insinuate it. The dispatcher had no authority. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/635 "2012-05-22T13:34:23Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > Uh Martin asked Zimmerman a question first. Perhaps if Zimmerman had stated he’s with NW and he’s already called the police because he thinks Martin’s up to no good, Trayvon might still be alive. > > Plus fuck that Frank Taaffe shit. “If Trayvon had been truthful…” Ok, I’ll change that to “If Martin had done _anything_ other than punch Zimmerman in the face”. Zimmerman probably should have said something different too, but just as Martin had no obligation to answer, neither did he. I’m not claiming that Zimmerman’s behaviour was exemplary, or even sensible, but neither was it illegal or reprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/636 "2012-05-22T13:34:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How about a bit of deductive reasoning, Counselor Sherlock? We already know he was “acting suspiciously” because he said so, that’s why he called the cops. Do you want to try and suggest that he was oblivious to Martin’s race? Can you tell me, in a simple declarative sentence, precisely why he considered Martin to be suspicious? Walking too slowly, looking around? _That’s_ suspicious? Yes. He said as much to the 911 operator: > [@](#): > > This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. > [@](#): > > If he had no good reason to believe that Martin was up to something, aren’t we pretty much left with race? Take away that which is impossible, and what you’re left with is likely the truth. > > So, you tell me: why did he call the cops? Walking too slowly? Too fast? Reckless eyeballing? Lurking with intent to loom? From what did Mr Zimmerman deduce that Martin was on drugs? I’ve seen lots and lots of stoned people, they don’t walk in any particular way. > > So, if he had no good reason to be suspicious, that only leaves not good reasons. One minus one equals zero. Walking slowly in the rain, looking at houses, in an area that had suffered multiple burglaries. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/637 "2012-05-22T13:37:34Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > That’s not what Zimmerman did, though. > > -All the recent break-ins were young black men. > -This guy a ayoung black man. > -Therefore he is up to no good. > > That was Zimmerman’s thought process. I base my reasoning on how little evidence he provided in the 911 call. How about: - We’ve had lots of recent breakins - Here’s a guy walking slowly in the rain, looking at houses - When most people in the rain would walk more briskly, to get where they’re going sooner and thus be out of the rain - Therefore he might be looking at houses to identify an unoccupied one ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/638 "2012-05-22T13:49:03Z")
With all this argument for Zimmerman having profiled a black, I wonder if the accusers are aware that Zimmerman is actually black himself. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/639 "2012-05-22T13:55:38Z")
What, since yesterday? ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/640 "2012-05-22T13:57:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > He said as much to the 911 operator: > > Walking slowly in the rain, looking at houses, in an area that had suffered multiple burglaries. Come on Bricker. You couldn’t get a defendant off bason those charges?! Plus you know who else walked in the rain? Zimmerman. Zimmerman needed to take action based on that?! Could the police take Martin in based on what Zimmerman said?(let’s assume he wasn’t high then) > [@Bricker](#): > > - When most people in the rain would walk more briskly, to get where they’re going sooner and thus be out of the rain Fucked up logic. How much rain is necessary to require a brisk pace and did it meet that threshold? I’ve actually walked not ran in a downpour. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=33)