# Time to officially Pit the Sanford Police Dept and their cover-up. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 29, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108 "2012-03-29T01:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/681 "2012-05-22T22:58:43Z")
> [@](#): > > …Don’t say we should ignore it based on your feelings. Didn’t say any such thing. If you listen carefully, you will discover that the words that come out of my mouth bear no resemblance to the words you put in there. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/682 "2012-05-22T23:38:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Didn’t say any such thing. If you listen carefully, you will discover that the words that come out of my mouth bear no resemblance to the words you put in there. Fine. Then explain clearly why you think anything other than the legality of his actions should affect how Zimmerman should be treated by the courts, then I can clearly explain why you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/683 "2012-05-22T23:48:34Z")
I’ll save you some time, I didn’t say any such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/684 "2012-05-22T23:53:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’ll save you some time, I didn’t say any such thing. My deepest apologies, I assumed this… > [@elucidator](#): > > All questions dissolve before the issue of legality, it is the only question worthy of consideration, and all argument, of any type whatsoever, depend on the precise legality of the matter at hand. …was sarcasm. If it’s your genuine belief, we’re in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/685 "2012-05-23T00:07:40Z")
Well, see, that’s more in line with a parody than sarcasm. Having a bit of fun with friend \*\*Bricker’s \*\*well-known compulsion to drag any argument into the legal arena, where he has maximum advantage. Basically, its a form of Republican poker, where he gets seven cards, you get five, all yours are face up and he gets to draw twice. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/686 "2012-05-23T00:48:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, see, that’s more in line with a parody than sarcasm. Having a bit of fun with friend \*\*Bricker’s \*\*well-known compulsion to drag any argument into the legal arena, where he has maximum advantage. Basically, its a form of Republican poker, where he gets seven cards, you get five, all yours are face up and he gets to draw twice. Yes, look, everyone. Somehow – no one is sure just how – I contrived to drag the discussion of the police department’s handling of a case of homicide under Florida’s odious SYG law into a discussion of the legalities of the situation. My apologies. Pease return the discussion to the police, the stand your ground law, and the arrest of Zimmerman, and away from the legalities where I steered it. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/687 "2012-05-23T01:41:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Having a bit of fun with friend \*\*Bricker’s \*\*well-known compulsion to drag any argument into the legal arena, where he has maximum advantage. That only matters if your concerned with “winning” or “losing” (I’m not sure what it is you think you win on the internet, but whatever). If what you want is to be informed, then you want to discuss it with the person who knows the most, not the least - and if you’re discussing a legal issue, a lawyer is a pretty good person to do it with (even if you feel bad because they know more than you). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/688 "2012-05-23T02:05:20Z")
Are you worried that he will be so disheartened that he will cease to share his information and viewpoint? The boy ain’t delicate, I don’t pick on people who can’t defend themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/689 "2012-05-23T02:14:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Are you worried that he will be so disheartened that he will cease to share his information and viewpoint? The boy ain’t delicate, I don’t pick on people who can’t defend themselves. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/690 "2012-05-23T04:47:05Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Oh, because I think that someone shouldn’t have to “take an ass-whuppin” I’m scum? Fuck that shit. Why on earth should they? Because they aren’t a puss? If someone attacks you with fists which are generally non lethal and you attack back with a gun which is generally lethal then you may be within the law to kill them but you are certainly no part of a man. THAT is the shame I mentioned. With a fist fight both parties live to fight another day. It lacks all honor to kill someone without a weapon. I’m not real sure I can explain manhood to anyone who thinks escalating a fist fight into a onesided gunfight is anything but a scared little puss move so I’ll quit now. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/691 "2012-05-23T05:34:16Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > Because they aren’t a puss? If someone attacks you with fists which are generally non lethal and you attack back with a gun which is generally lethal then you may be within the law to kill them but you are certainly no part of a man. THAT is the shame I mentioned. With a fist fight both parties live to fight another day. It lacks all honor to kill someone without a weapon. I’m not real sure I can explain manhood to anyone who thinks escalating a fist fight into a onesided gunfight is anything but a scared little puss move so I’ll quit now. > **[Google](https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=killed+in+a+fistfight&oq=killed+in+a+fistfight&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=hp.3...362.3041.0.3277.21.13.0.0.0.0.810.6012.0j1j1j3j2j2j3.13.0...0.0.F27z3hZ76-U&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=2c345c808a9aa2c2&biw=960&bih=525)** > > Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/692 "2012-05-23T06:19:41Z")
So, there’s this ill tempered mofo in my life. All I gotta do, go to Florida and get one of those concealed carry thingys. How hard can it be? Zimmerman got one, and he’s a dildo. Lure my brother in…the ill tempered mofo down to Florida, piss him off, and when he takes a swing at me, I plug him, because I’m in fear of my life! Pop goes the weasel, adios, motherfucker! Day-um! I can get some mileage out of this situation! Though maybe if I do it more than once or twice, they might catch on… ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/693 "2012-05-23T06:50:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Lacerations on the head and broken nose on Zimmerman. No injuries except on the knuckle on Martin. Statements of witnesses that there was a fight. The two together point pretty clearly who was beating up whom. Er - that doesn’t suggest who did the attacking Given what we verifiably know about what happened that night, who do you think is more likely to be the attacker? a) Trayvon ran to get away from George b) George got out of his truck to follow him c) Trayvon was scared enough to try to get away d) George was gungho enough to follow him down a back lane. What is the most likely explanation on who started something again? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/694 "2012-05-23T07:54:22Z")
Well, the guy on drugs! We already have expert testimony that he looked like he was on drugs, an autopsy that showed massive traces of marijuana, what more do you need? Besides, who else walks all the way to the 7-11 in the rain to buy Skittles and Peace Tea who isn’t ripped to the tits? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/695 "2012-05-23T10:36:56Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > Because they aren’t a puss? If someone attacks you with fists which are generally non lethal and you attack back with a gun which is generally lethal then you may be within the law to kill them but you are certainly no part of a man. THAT is the shame I mentioned. With a fist fight both parties live to fight another day. It lacks all honor to kill someone without a weapon. I’m not real sure I can explain manhood to anyone who thinks escalating a fist fight into a onesided gunfight is anything but a scared little puss move so I’ll quit now. That’s possibly the most idiotic thing I’ve read in any of these threads, which is really saying something. Imagine for a moment that it’s someone you care about who’s attacked - your brother or son, for example. They’ve been punched to the ground, and are having their head beaten against the concrete. A likely outcome of this is that they will suffer brain damage, possibly severe. Imagine further that you end up being the one caring for them, presumably for the rest of your life. Will it be a comfort to you that they could have avoided this, but were too “manly” to do so? If you really think so, you’re a clueless moron of the highest order. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/696 "2012-05-23T13:59:16Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > Because they aren’t a puss? If someone attacks you with fists which are generally non lethal and you attack back with a gun which is generally lethal then you may be within the law to kill them but you are certainly no part of a man. THAT is the shame I mentioned. With a fist fight both parties live to fight another day. It lacks all honor to kill someone without a weapon. I’m not real sure I can explain manhood to anyone who thinks escalating a fist fight into a onesided gunfight is anything but a scared little puss move so I’ll quit now. So, if it was Lucy Zimmerman, everything is cool ? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/697 "2012-05-23T14:08:28Z")
If this is a legalities-only discussion (because we all have to obey Rand Rover’s fiats on what threads are about or for whatever reason) then it’s still valid to question whether the enforcement and interpretation of self-defense law in Florida is consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment and the various civil rights laws. There seems to be a disturbing pattern emerging across the various cases in terms of racially disparate enforcement. On top of that, it seems unlikely that there would be no statutory ground whatsoever for the Florida appelate system and/or the federal government to intervene if Florida effectively legalized murder, racial component or no. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/698 "2012-05-23T14:17:34Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > Because they aren’t a puss? If someone attacks you with fists which are generally non lethal and you attack back with a gun which is generally lethal then you may be within the law to kill them but you are certainly no part of a man. THAT is the shame I mentioned. With a fist fight both parties live to fight another day. It lacks all honor to kill someone without a weapon. I’m not real sure I can explain manhood to anyone who thinks escalating a fist fight into a onesided gunfight is anything but a scared little puss move so I’ll quit now. Zimmy couldn’t dass to risk T’s fisks. It’s “Bang!” and it’s “Croak,” understand? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/699 "2012-05-23T15:01:11Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > If this is a legalities-only discussion (because we all have to obey Rand Rover’s fiats on what threads are about or for whatever reason) then it’s still valid to question whether the enforcement and interpretation of self-defense law in Florida is consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment and the various civil rights laws. There seems to be a disturbing pattern emerging across the various cases in terms of racially disparate enforcement. On top of that, it seems unlikely that there would be no statutory ground whatsoever for the Florida appelate system and/or the federal government to intervene if Florida effectively legalized murder, racial component or no. Yes, those are certainly valid questions. As to the first, I’m not aware of any particular racial group that has seen a disparate impact since the enactment of the SYG law, but that’s a relatively meaningless observation, since I haven’t seen any data. Have you? Is there such an impact? As to the second, I’m not aware of any room for the federal government to intervene in a matter of state law when state law immunizes certain conduct such as this. I can’t think of any way it could be done, nor am I aware of any time it’s been done before. The Florida appellate system is another matter. They could strike down the SYG law. Except they haven’t. But they could. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/700 "2012-05-23T15:07:10Z")
And this just in… [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522\_1\_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-22/news/os-george-zimmerman-key-witnesses-20120522_1_witnesses-change-shooting-fdle-agent) **Several George Zimmerman witnesses change their accounts** > [@](#): > > …Evidence released last week in the second-degree-murder case against George Zimmerman shows four key witnesses made major changes in what they say they saw and heard the night he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford. > > Three changed their stories in ways that may damage Zimmerman. A fourth abandoned her initial story, that she saw one person chasing another. Now, she says, she saw a single figure running… Offered without comment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=36)